Powder for 125g Plated RNFP .38 Reloads or Shooting Low

[spur0701]

American Reloading had plated 158g RNFP .38 bullets on sale for about .04 a couple of months ago so I ordered 1000 while I was ordering some 45 and 9mm.......but when the order showed up they had substituted 125g RNFP .38 because they were out of 158g....but they did add 20% more.....so I didn't call and complain or try and send them back. But I'm having a harder than normal time getting a good load for them. :banghead:

I wasn't finding any loading data in my Lee manual but after researching loading plated 125g in .38 settled on starting at putting some of the 125g plated RNFP over 4.5g of Bullseye. I can't use a chrony at my range but recoil felt good and no signs of pressure......but they are shooting low out of the GP100 I was shooting them in. I know that lighter bullets will generally shoot lower but these are like 4" to 6" low at 25'. Any recommendation how how to raise POI? Another powder? I have Unique, bluedot, AA7, and a little W231.

 

[Overkill870]

Wow now I know one company to avoid ordering from. They knowingly sent you something you did not order. I hate 125 gr 38 bullets because of this. I would be pissed.

 

[Rule3]

Heck I would still call them and have THEM pick up the bullets and refund your money if they can not deliver what you ordered!

 

[Schwing]

A few years back I cast about 2000 125 grain RN bullets intended for my 9mm. Unfortunately, I never could get them to shoot accurately without leading out of any of my 9mms.

Luckily, my molds drop a tad on the large side. For giggles, I sized a few to .358 and even .359 and worked up some loads in .38 special. The most accurate loads I found, surprisingly, were with Promo. I found that 3.3 grains of promo made for super light plinking rounds for my LCR and 4.9 grains of promo pushes them at about 1200FPS out of my gp100. Both loads were extremely accurate and had zero leading. Being plated would not change things much vs simple cast.

I would not be too happy that they sent me the wrong thing but 125 grain rn bullets can be great in .38.

 

[1KPerDay]

I recently tried about 15 powders trying to get my xtreme 125 grains to shoot to POA in my 2" M10 and finally gave up. Check my thread in the reloading forum for details if interested. Max and +p loads were closer but still couldn't get any to work. 158s shoot closer IME. I'll have to use the 125s in guns with adjustable sights.

 

[RPegram]

I really like CFE-Pistol in 38 special. I use the same weight bullet, but hi-tek coated lead and it is as accurate as anything I've ever used. They shoot great out of my 38 snubbies and GP-100. I use 5.6 grains and this is middle of the road for load. I've used both 231 Unique, but this is more accurate. I would only use Blue Dot under a 158 gr bullet, and then it would be a last ditch effort so I could shoot. It works, but is dirty even at max load. I have never tried AA7.

 

[Mauser69]

but these are like 4" to 6" low at 25'.

25 FEET?? Or did you really mean 25 yards? Heck, even rocks should be more accurate than that at 25 FEET.

I do see that much deviation low with 125g JHP at 25 yards in .357 with some powders (Longshot being one), but not yet with .38 Spl. Different powders CAN make that much difference. For example, the same bullets that shoot low in my Blackhawk at 25 Yards with Longshot or W571 do not shoot low with a similar power load using 800-X. But remember that no two guns react identically with the same loads.

 

[spur0701]

Update: I think it's not the load but the GP100. Made up another 100 rounds of this load and took it to the range this morning and tried it out of Speed Six, a 3" Taurus .357, a 3" Rossi .357, and 4" S&W Mod 19 and it was fine out of all of them.........guess I need to check that GP100 for signs of leading at least.

 

[ReloaderFred]

My wife and I shoot tons of 125 gr. bullets through our .38's for SASS matches. It's one of our favorite bullets, but I load them over a moderate charge of Bullseye. They'll shoot cloverleafs at 15 yards, and very respectable groups at 25 yards from the bench.

That bullet weight doesn't get the respect it deserves, simply because people have gotten used to shooting 158 gr. bullets in the .38 Special, and "we've always done it that way". But don't suggest 160 gr. bullets to them!...... I get more bullets per pound of alloy casting the 125's and 105's that we also shoot, and I've never heard a steel target complain about being hit with something other than a 158 gr. bullet. Or for that matter, a paper target, either....

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[TimSr]

Any recommendation how how to raise POI?

The only way to raise to POI is to lower the velocity. I'm not sure how low you can go with plated bullets, but you might already be there. Reduce charge if data allows for it. Plated bullets can't go as low as a lead exterior.

 

[1KPerDay]

The only way to raise to POI is to lower the velocity.

This is not my experience. Quite the contrary.

 

[RPegram]

The easiest way I found to adjust elevation on a GP-100 was to turn the screw on the rear sight.

 

[Toprudder]

FWIW, the same thing happened to me with American Reloading. Ordered the 158gn pulls, but got 125gn bullets, with a handful of 158 bullets thrown in. I had to hand check every one. Would not be good to stack a 158 on top of a max charge for 125gn.

I called them up to complain. The shipping manager spoke with me and he sent me 750 of the Xtreme 158gn HP bullets. I got to keep the 125s.

I'm using the 125gn bullets to load up low recoil practice rounds for 38spl.

 

[gwpercle]

Doesn't the Ruger GP-100 have adjustable sights ?
If so , adjust the sights . Or is there something I'm missing with the easy answer ?
Gary

 

[1KPerDay]

The easiest way I found to adjust elevation on a GP-100 was to turn the screw on the rear sight.

Some have fixed sights. I assume the OP has one.

 

[gotboostvr]

I must have gotten lucky. My favorite M19 shoots just about everything to the same POA.

My load of 4.2gr of Red Dot pushed 125gr plated bullets hard enough to drop steel poppers with some authority when put high on them, the guy before was struggling with the same plate shooting steel cased 45acp from a 1911, but was hitting much lower on the target.

 

[Hondo 60]

Not to rub it in, but my M10 seems to shoot POA with 125 gr plated.
Maybe I'm not aiming right?

 

[TimSr]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimSr View Post
The only way to raise to POI is to lower the velocity.

This is not my experience. Quite the contrary.

It's true of any gun where the barrel rises from recoil as the bullet passes through the barrel, unless you are shooting at distances where bullet drop in trajectory is counter to the rise, which is not typical in pistol applications.

 

[Schwing]

It's true of any gun where the barrel rises from recoil as the bullet passes through the barrel, unless you are shooting at distances where bullet drop in trajectory is counter to the rise, which is not typical in pistol applications.

+1

It seems kind of counter intuitive but lower velocity bullets almost always have a higher POI than faster bullets. That fraction of a second longer that they spend traveling down the barrel means that the gun has more time to flip upwards do to recoil before the bullet exits the barrel.

 

[1KPerDay]

It is not true in my experience loading for my fixed sight .38 Special. Higher powder charges equal higher POI. Perhaps milder recoiling loads don't have the force or speed to move the bullet up during recoil quickly enough.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm guessing your revolver has fixed sights or there would be no thread. Us old time revolver guys who shoot a lot of different bullets in fixed sight revolvers have learned to adjust the POA to get the POI we are looking for. I don't think changing powders will help you since you are not complaining about accuracy but only POI.

 

[gwpercle]

Adjusting POA to get POI we are looking for.....if you new guys ever hear about something called Kentucky Windage...this is what it is.
Old school terminology , but it still works.
I use it with a fixed sighted model 58 S&W I own.
Gary

 

[Skinnedknuckles]

American Reloading had plated 158g RNFP .38 bullets on sale for about .04 a couple of months ago so I ordered 1000 while I was ordering some 45 and 9mm.......but when the order showed up they had substituted 125g RNFP .38 because they were out of 158g....but they did add 20% more.....so I didn't call and complain or try and send them back. But I'm having a harder than normal time getting a good load for them. :banghead:

I wasn't finding any loading data in my Lee manual but after researching loading plated 125g in .38 settled on starting at putting some of the 125g plated RNFP over 4.5g of Bullseye. I can't use a chrony at my range but recoil felt good and no signs of pressure......but they are shooting low out of the GP100 I was shooting them in. I know that lighter bullets will generally shoot lower but these are like 4" to 6" low at 25'. Any recommendation how how to raise POI? Another powder? I have Unique, bluedot, AA7, and a little W231.

The usual disclaimers apply - these loads were shown to work in my guns following normal load development procedures. Anyone using this information should develop similar loads in their guns.

For a standard .38 Special using Xtreme or Berry's 125 gr plated bullets my 4" Taurus M66 likes 4.6 gr of HP-38, yielding about 750 fps.

For something with a little more oomph, I like a +P load 5.2 gr of HP-38, yielding about 830 fps.

I use the +P load in my Rossi carbine as a plinking load (about 1160 fps) ringing steel at 100 yds offhand.

Because I have adjustable sights on the Taurus, I didn't have any POI problem.

I used data from the Hodgdon web site as the basis for my load development. Since I'm shooting a .357 Magnum revolver and own no .38 Special revolvers, pressure was not the primary issue.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Adjusting POA to get POI we are looking for.....if you new guys ever hear about something called Kentucky Windage...this is what it is.
Old school terminology , but it still works.
I use it with a fixed sighted model 58 S&W I own.
Gary

Actually, Kentucky windage is in references to moving the rifle to the left or right to compensate for bullet wind drift but close enough...

 

[joneb]

I would the start load for Bullseye, increasing the bullets time in the barrel may help.
Try a more relaxed hold on the gun.