Powder for accuracy load

[Morrey]

I just finished my Remington 700 Long Range .30-06 rifle customization. Glassed it with a Leo LR/T 50mm scope. Sweet setup. Drawback...HEAVY!

First phase of load development: 100 yards. 3 powders used all IMR. 3031, 4064, 4350 with varying grains for velocities between 2700 and 2900 fps. The bullet was Sierra Gameking spitzer boat tail 150 gr.

As expected when searching for the right load, results can be all over the place. The biggest loser was 3031. I could not cover the spreads with the palm of my hand. Second was 4064 which surprised me as I anticipated this would be the best. What Sierra listed as a 4064 accuracy load did not hold true at 2900 fps. The groups tightened as I dropped velocity back toward 2700.

The SHINING STAR was 4350. 55.7 grains was published to be at 2800 fps and it drilled a .416 MOA group, best of the day. The other 4350 load I shot was 2900 and the group started to widen the spread.

My next round of loads will be to stick with 4350 and drop the load in small half grain increments and see what that does to my spread. If anyone sees something that stands out to take note of, please holler.

side note: I doubt I'll use this gun as a hunting rifle as it is a beast to carry. Due to this, I plan to load 168 Matchkings for bench use....yeah I know....I'll be starting all over. BUT, do y'all agree, the gun is likely to favor 4350 with the bullets being fairly close in weight?

 

[sage5907]

It looks like you've found your load at 55.7 grains of IMR 4350. I have fired many rounds with that same bullet with 57 grains of IMR 4350 and it has always been good for me. I'll give up some accuracy to increase the velocity. I'm surprised that IMR 4064 didn't shoot as well as 4350 but I always use near maximum loads. I always use 4064 with a magnum primer and it works for me. If you want to step out to another powder similar to IMR 4350 but with increased velocity you may want to try Reloader 17.

 

[spitballer]

My .223 target rifle ended up being pretty heavy, too, mostly because of the 30" straight cylinder barrel. Even heavier (19 lbs) after I balanced it with lead shot in the butt of the stock. However it is remarkably stable, and recoil is reduced because of the weight.

The biggest challenge turned out to be finding a suitable powder for the longer barrel, something I never thought about when I designed it. Long story short - a slow powder gave the best performance in the long barrel but I ended up having to kick-start it (i.e. duplexing) to get the bullet to deform properly. Fortunately you didn't have this problem with the 4350 but it is no suprise to me that the slower powder gave better performance. Good for you.

 

[Bart B.]

IMR4064 produced best 30-06 accuracy in its day as a match cartridge with bullets 168 to 180 grains. 150's did best with IMR4895. IMR4350 was a toss up with IMR4320 for 190's. 200's did best accuracy over IMR4350. Those shooting the best scores typically used the same load. New cases of full length sized ones were favored.

Shoot at least 20 shots with each load to get good data. Judge accuracy by the biggest group of several a load shoots if you shoot 5 or less shots per group. You can't tell if the smallest few-shot group had all perfect rounds or less than perfect ones whose variables cancelled each other out. How much of the group size was caused by your variables?

If shots start stringing in the same direction as the barrel heats up, have a 'smith square up the receiver face a few thousandths then shim the barrel to clock in for correct headspace.

Group size in MOA at 100 yards up to 20% for each additional 100 yards further.

 

[Morrey]

IMR4064 produced best 30-06 accuracy in its day as a match cartridge with bullets 168 to 180 grains. 150's did best with IMR4895. IMR4350 was a toss up with IMR4320 for 190's. 200's did best accuracy over IMR4350. Those shooting the best scores typically used the same load. New cases of full length sized ones were favored.

Shoot at least 20 shots with each load to get good data. Judge accuracy by the biggest group of several a load shoots if you shoot 5 or less shots per group. You can't tell if the smallest few-shot group had all perfect rounds or less than perfect ones whose variables cancelled each other out. How much of the group size was caused by your variables?

If shots start stringing in the same direction as the barrel heats up, have a 'smith square up the receiver face a few thousandths then shim the barrel to clock in for correct headspace.

Group size in MOA at 100 yards up to 20% for each additional 100 yards further.

Brad, thanks for the solid tips and techniques.

Since I am likely not going to hunt with this gun, I think I'll make a target shooter out of it and see how the 168gr Matchkings work on top of the 4064. I'll also work up loads with 4350 for a heads up.

As a side note Brad....Cooper of Montana makes a nice rifle and they guarantee .5 MOA accuracy or they will work on it until it is a .5 MOA gun. In their .30-06, they use 168gr Matchkings on top of 45 grains of 4064. This is a fairly slow bullet only travelling at 2500 fps. I think this tells the story, however, or at least tells Cooper's story. And they send a target with every gun to show the potential with the right hand load.

 

[Poper]

BUT, do y'all agree, the gun is likely to favor 4350 with the bullets being fairly close in weight?

Possibly. Only experimentation will tell for sure.

Since I began shooting metallic silhouette competition a little over two years ago, I have found 2 elements of shooting that have greatly improved my group size - especially at distance:
1) High powered, quality optics.
- I use a 36x Weaver Target scope for load development. You cant shoot accurately if you can't see with good clarity. A scope of this power and clarity reveals any faults or inconsistencies in my shooting procedure, especially my trigger squeeze.
2) Practice.
- There is no substitute for disciplined practice and many rounds sent downrange.

You've got an excellent start, Morrey! Go get 'em and keep us posted!

 

[Sunray]

What Sierra listed as a 4064 accuracy load was the most accurate out of the rifle/universal receiver Sierra used in their tests. Your rifle(and mine) will always shoot the same ammo differently than the rifle/universal receiver Sierra used in their tests.
"...the bullets being fairly close in weight..." They aren't. Aren't constructed the same nor with the same degree of QC either. Different bullet means you start over and work up from the start load.

 

[Morrey]

What Sierra listed as a 4064 accuracy load was the most accurate out of the rifle/universal receiver Sierra used in their tests. Your rifle(and mine) will always shoot the same ammo differently than the rifle/universal receiver Sierra used in their tests.
"...the bullets being fairly close in weight..." They aren't. Aren't constructed the same nor with the same degree of QC either. Different bullet means you start over and work up from the start load.

LOL...somehow I knew shifting ANY component would result in total load re-work ups. I guess, Sunray, I was looking to see if my new 700 build had guts. Yeppers, it does.

 

[Grumulkin]

I have seen repeatedly that shooters get very good results with IMR 4350 but, strangely, I've never used it for that application; perhaps I should. The best load I have for the 30/06 is with Varget and 168 grain bullets.

 

[Bart B.]

Sunray speaks:

What Sierra listed as a 4064 accuracy load was the most accurate out of the rifle/universal receiver Sierra used in their tests. Your rifle(and mine) will always shoot the same ammo differently than the rifle/universal receiver Sierra used in their tests. "...the bullets being fairly close in weight..." They aren't. Aren't constructed the same nor with the same degree of QC either. Different bullet means you start over and work up from the start load.

Some of the biggest myths in the shooting sports. It's mostly based on the popular but poor method used to develop loads.

I've never worked up any load for any new barrel save one for a new bullet no data was established for. Then it shot about half MOA at 600 yards in several rifles.

Sierra's bullets are tested in several firearms for each for accuracy. One of them's what they use to develop loads for as stated in their data. They note the load for each bullet that performs best across all of them. They use the same bullets for those tests as they sell at retail.

Sierra passed on to many competitive shooters and hunters what loads they used to test them for accuracy in their test barrels. Those barrels were the same ones anyone could buy and use in their own rifles.

Their most accurate loads shooting their bullets in the plant for accuracy were the ones that won the matches, set the records and all that stuff. In spite of Sierra not doing any case prep whatsoever, metered all powder charges and properly full length sized all their cases. Sierra's never worked up a new load for different lots of components as far as I know. The ballistic tech grabs 10 of them as they come out of the pointing die (last stage in their manufacture), seats them in primed/charged cases then shoots them in a minute or so. Records group size then goes back to grab 10 more throughout the production run.

I've used their test load data for different cartridges and barrels; all shot just fine and as good as anyone else at the matches. And was a good friend of their first Ballistic Test/Manager for years; got a couple of tours in their plant and shot a lot of matches with him. He asked me in the early 70's to test their new 6.5mm 140-gr. Match King in my .264 Win Mag LR match rifle.

I'm convinced most people's first thought on loading some new bullet or cartridge is to first find a powder in load data that produces the highest muzzle velocities; then they try to find a charge weight that meets their accuracy standards. They don't want to loose 2.5% of muzzle velocity to gain 20% to 30% better accuracy by using a little slower powder. Doesn't matter that the arsenals got better accuracy with IMR4064 with the M1 bullet of 173 grains in the .30-06 as well as 20% longer barrel life than IMR4895 produced. But they had to hand weigh charges to a 2/10ths grain spread as the high speed measures didn't throw it any better than about 4/10ths grain spread. IMR4895 was more erosive, metered more uniform, had less barrel life and accuracy but was cheaper to use but still met the military accuracy standards at the time. Today's good measures throw IMR4064 to a 3/10ths grain spread which is good enough for Sierra to get 1/4 MOA average accuracy in their .308 Win test barrels shooting 150 to 180 grain match bullets at 200 yards. That charge spec won a lot of 200 and 300 yard matches in .30-06 target rifles before they were replaced by the .308 Win where they performed as well and won the matches.

 

[spitballer]

I'm convinced most people's first thought on loading some new bullet or cartridge is to first find a powder in load data that produces the highest muzzle velocities; then they...

Bart B I know better than to try to match your knowledge, and I'll be the first to admit that I've learned a thing or two from your posts. But given the profusion of assault rifles I see at the range these days I would venture to suggest that most reloaders these days are more concerned about firepower than they are about either accuracy or velocity. Velocity sells, but apparently it doesn't sell well enough to force people to give up their stubby barrels. To be fair, shooters with stubby barrels probably account for more sales, and if I had a stubby barrel I'd be concerned about velocity too.

 

[sage5907]

Bart B, it also depends of whether you're a target shooter or a hunter. I'm a hunter and I fall into the exact category that you describe in that I pick a powder that gives the highest velocity and I adjust the charge to give the best accuracy with those high charges. But, the difference between 2700 fps and 2900 fps is a full 7 percent and that increase can be achieved by using about 4 more grains of powder. Many 30-06 hunting rifles achieve their best accuracy at those higher velocities. Like you, I am a Sierra bullet fan and use the Sierra 150 grain boattail bullets and I use a generic loading that gives minute of angle accuracy in several rifles. It wouldn't be to my advantage to tailor a load and specific overall length to each rifle. I don't go for .416 groups because I'm not a target shooter. I also like reading your posts and I am open to your opinions.

 

[41 Mag]

I fall into this as well, and also ain't gonna get into a data related contest with you. I'm just a little above average shooter who takes pride in making things shoot the smallest groups I can work up.

I'm convinced most people's first thought on loading some new bullet or cartridge is to first find a powder in load data that produces the highest muzzle velocities; then they try to find a charge weight that meets their accuracy standards.

That said though, and in regard to the quote, I WOULD wager that "most" who are loading their own for hunting or informal target shooting are the majority, verses those who are actually working towards a competitive situation.

For the target shooter consistency is everything. I do not remember where it came from, but I have remembered a saying "the name of the game is the same" for years regarding shooting small groups. It was meant to say that your loads have to be consistent, your rifle has to be a solid platform which doesn't change, and as a shooter, you have to preform the consistently the same with each shot. Of course there are always variables introduced such as wind, heat or cold, but if you have everything already going for you these can be adjusted for.

On the hunting side, you as well as I, know that most work up a good, to great load, and well thats it. Some of us tinker around with this, that, or the other, and spend the funds on the equipment, be it rifle scope dies or whatever to attain the best we can achieve. That said though everyone doesn't have the time, space, or financial means to afford to do this.

In some of the loads for my rifles I choose, just like you said, the powders which do produce the top end velocity ranges based upon the bullets I am working with. I work up to the upper end load, then I review the results, and I work towards the accuracy end of things. Usually I always start out at the longest lenght that will fully function from my magazine, and after finding a promising load, I start to seat the bullets deeper in .005" increments. I load and shoot 10 each until I find something that is either to my satisfaction or until i have dispelled the load as being what I am looking for.

I will be the first to say though, that I personally prefer accuracy over velocity, but I DO try to gain them both together if I can.

Even with this though, I might shoot anywhere from 2-500 rounds before finding what I am looking for, and along with cleaning, this does remove some of the life expectancy of the barrel. Even with this though since I am hunting with these rather than competing, the average barrels on my rifles will fully outlive me. Most if not all of the rifles I have are off the shelf factory barreled, and the whole package "might" only have been bedded, since I purchased it.

I put the optics on it that I expect will serve me best overall, and that I can afford, for the particular rifle and what it was purchased for and go from there. Some of them have top end Leupold's, some sport Burris, some sport Nikon, and there's even a Nightforce in there somewhere. Whatever the case might be though the group sizes that most of them will consistently shoot is at or under an inch at 100yds and with a few of them is that at 200yds. The biggest issue is how I am doing when I sit down behind them.

These groups however aren't the result of simply pulling out the best charge and calling it good. I test them through out the year and have many times found whats good in May ain't worth a hoot by Oct. Just with changing conditions some combinations will deliver far different group sizes. Now adjusting something a little here or there as I go helps, but I'm looking for the "ONE" load I don't have to screw with. Once I find it I leave well enough alone. Examples, for my 25-06 throw in the 50+grs of RL-22 under a 115gr Partition, seated to 3.250" and it will shoot 1/2 - 3/4" at 200yds. Same with my .270 loaded over 46.5grs of IMR-3031 and a 130gr Nosler. Not the usual load nor hitting top end but deadly and accurate out to 300+yds.

But there again, I use mine for hunting only, but I still strive for the best overall accuracy, and the velocity, well if it's there fine if not I might try other things but as long as it results in terminal performance on the intended game at the longest range I feel comfortable with, I'm fine with that.

Oh, and Happy New Year to you all.