Powder Issue

[choppertime]

Why does 1 brand of powder work for 1 Individual and not for the Next? Meaning for example cfe223 groups great for me and individual 2 says it's crappie my groups went from 1/2moa to all over but if I go back to brand A my groups tighten up and individual 1 says if I use just #2 individual powder my groups go to crap I just don't get it with 1 person praises a powder and another condemns it?

 

[mahansm]

It's more like the rifle belonging to individual "a" shoots well with that powder while the one belonging to "b" does not. After you've been shooting/loading a while
you will realize that all rifles are different and your load must be tuned to a particular rifle. I've got about 8 rifles in .223 Win; I've tuned loads for four of them so far.
However, the load that shoots lights out in one doesn't group well in the others.

 

[FROGO207]

Even consecutive serial number firearms will not shoot the same tuned load exactly the same. Some firearms will shoot the same ammo to ALMOST the same point but it is the exception not the rule with any firearm I have worked with. In that case I will make a load that is about the same accuracy in both but not best in either and call it good enough. Reloading is part voodoo, part black magic, part skill, and part luck-----with ever differing amounts of all those in each individual firearm IMHO. Rifles seem to be the most picky and handguns seem to be the easiest to find a good common load for it seems. I really enjoy the hunt for a great load for each and every firearm I reload for.

 

[Bart B.]

Why does 1 brand of powder work for 1 Individual and not for the Next?

Several reasons. Unless I know the details of each person's rifle, reloading tools and techniques, their marksmanship skills and exactly how they test for and judge accuracy, I can reach all sorts of conclusions.

The opposite's also true as oft times the same load element will shoot very accurate across all sorts of ammo.

 

[someguy2800]

Every powder on the market has a particular bullet, chamber, primer, ect... that it works very well with it. Sometimes just changing bullet weight 10 grains in the same caliber will make the "right" powder the "wrong" powder.

 

[hdwhit]

choppertime wrote: "Why does 1 brand of powder work for 1 Individual and not for the Next?"

It's more likely to be a question differences in rifles and not the different powders.

To the extent the powder is a material element in the difference, my guess would be that it has to do with the different burn rates producing different recoil impulses that affect how the shooter reacts to the recoil.

 

[Blue68f100]

I would add that everyone requirements are different. What someone calls a good load may be bad for your definition.

Example: A neighbor was satisfied with getting on a 10" paper plate with factory ammo. Then testing different mfg he found some that were 3" he was thrilled. He was over watching me test some loads one time. As I went through the loads ( all 1.0" -1.25" 5 shot groups), he was surprised I did not like them. Then the 2nd to last loads shrunk down to 0.5". He could not believe the difference 0.3 grs made. I told him that's just the screening to find out where to look closer at. I tested both side of the charge and played with the OAL till I was satisfied with a larger pool. I ended up teaching him how to handload so he could tune his ammo to his guns. So now his std good loads is 1.5". He does not take the extra time to fine tune them.

Everyone has their own set of standards that they shoot for. The perfectionist in me wants the best I can get.

 

[sugarmaker]

Bore diameters vary a little,land height can vary, freebore length, freebore diameter, leade angle all have tolerance. Number of rounds through the gun can effectively change freebore due to throat erosion, which affects bullet jump, pressure,and velocity. Different bullets of the same weight have different ogive contact points and contact angles, also different jacket and core hardness which affects engraving pressure. Powder bulk density varies 3 to 5%, affecting case fill and pressure. Guns have differences in chamber dimensions which change combustion chamber volume and thus pressure / velocity. Differences in finish quality of the bore...the list goes on. Since no one has yet figured out how to accurately predict the net combined effect of all these variables, we are left with no better a system than to experiment.

 

[Bart B.]

The biggest variable causing bullets to head in the wrong direction is the human aiming the rifle and getting the shot off in a non-repeatable manner.

 

[Bart B.]

Since no one has yet figured out how to accurately predict the net combined effect of all these variables,

Some variables can be predicted.

Bullets must be larger than groove diameter for best accuracy.

Lesser leade angles typically shoot bullets more accurate than greater ones.

Another variable is the test conditions and standards.

 

[bullseye308]

Search out barrel harmonics and barrel whip. That will give you a good start to understanding some of the variables that are unique to every rifle. Getting the bullet to exit the barrel ar just the right time is key. It just depends on your requirements are for acceptable accuracy. Some times you can go up or down 1/2 to 3/4 grain and everything is good. Sometimes changing manufacturers of the bullet does it.

I had the same problem in 223 with Varget and BLC a while back. One liked surplus pulled 55 grain bullets and the other powder only seemed to work with Sierra 55's. Didn't matter the seating depth, crimp or no, or anything.