Powder Measuring

[Steven57]

I have the Lee Perfect Powder Measure, Lee Auto Disk (which I've yet to use), and just bought a Lee Dipper set.

I use the Lee Safety Magnetic Powder Scale and an Frankford Arsenal DS-750 electronic scale.

Here's the thing.
While measuring up some 700-X to 4.7gr the ever so minuscule movement of the Perfect Powder Measure would jump me around .3 grain with each and every throw. Found the right dipper (think it was the .7) and it was worse between dips! Half the time all the powder would not come out.

So, I'm in midrange with powder right now so a .1 or .2 won't ruin me, but once I'm at MAX (if I get there) how the heck to you quality control? Every single round?

 

[Trailduster79]

I use an older RCBS powder dispenser.

When I set it up to do loads I adjust it until my digital scale gives me the load that I want. I check it at least three times. I will then check it again after I have done 10-15 rounds. It typically is still correct. I have learned to trust my equipment. After I get it set up and do my initial checks it is rare that I re-check it past the first 10-15 rounds.

I do re-check a little more often when doing rifle rounds though.

 

[Rico567]

It is important to adopt the same technique, whatever the measure being used. If it's got a handle, work the handle a complete throw, and at the same speed each time. The dipper technique should not change. If the powder measure is operated by the press itself, operate the press handle the same way each time, ensuring a complete stroke from top to bottom and back.

 

[spitballer]

I'm still using that Lee scale. Yes, it's finicky and doesn't always read the same when it approaches level from different directions, and all of that. But once you get a feel for repeatability it became a joy to use for small, tightly controlled batches. Probably wouldn't be so much fun for someone who needs to crank out more than just a few rounds at a time, though.

 

[A Pause for the Coz]

Copied from one of my previous posts. Just to lazy to rewrite it. Its been two years since I figured out the PPM and it is still performing excellently.

COPY:
I am using my 2nd PPM now. I had sold my 1st one when I became frustrated with it while dropping flake powders. (Unique)

I found I really liked using the RCBS Uniflow. It drops Unique real well for me.
It works so well That I can use it on my progressive press to drop Unique.
I now have it all linked up with the case activated linkage. So unless I feel like dismantling it every time I want to drop a few loads.

So until I get a 2nd Uniflow or a Lyman 55. Its PPM time.

As soon as I got this 2nd one. All the reasons I got rid of the 1st one came back. Looking for a 6 grain drop get from 4.9 to 6.3. Usually it seems to error light as long as your set load was a full packed measure.

I also tried this with Herco and Blue dot. all flake powders. Basically same results.

Cant get pissed this time because I came into this one with eyes wide open.
Some people say they are a piece of crap, your a dummy for buying one esp 2 of them.

Then there are guys that are using them with no problems.

Since (My brother from another Mother) has never recommended any thing bad to me. I figure I better keep after this thing. ( history over)

I think I finally got this PPM figured out. After looking at it closely you notice its a small hole filling a bigger cavity.
Unlike the Uniflow where you have a big powder hopper filling the smaller drop.

With the PPM it IS all about the tap. Or in my case tap tap--- Tap tap.
I cant say that Just start tapping and it will work. What I found was after doing a few hundred Unique and Herco loads. I found I needed to use the trickler less and less. Then i noticed I made a whole run at 6 gr of Unique and did not trickle once.

" Lets test this"

I found that tapping on the screw twice on the up stroke and then twice on the down stroke was filling the drop as needed. Sorry for the dark image. my hand was covering the flash. Seems I am a right handed photo taker.
That tap spot for me seems to be the sweet spot. Tapping any where else did not seem to work so well. Tap right on the screw.



I set it up for 6 gr of Herco.


Then ran 10 drops making sure to follow the exact tap procedure.
So I can get Herco to with in 2 tenths of a grain in ten drops.
I can sure live with that.



I tried the same test with 6 gr of Unique.

I got 59.9 gr across ten drops.
Not sure I 100% trust this thing yet, but I am not afraid to use it for my flake powder.

 

[Jlr2267]

I've found the ppm to be very consistent, if I use it consistently. Keep the hopper better than 1/2 full, and drop 20 or so charges before measuring anything. Then drop a charge, tap the spout firmly a couple times, weigh, adjust as needed...do this until you get your charge where you want it. Then drop/tap/measure 5 or so in a row to verify consistency. After that, I measure 1 in 10 drops. I get +/- 0.1 grains normally. Maybe +/- 0.2 with Herco...not a problem unless going for match accuracy.

 

[Gadawg88]

I use the Lee auto disk on all my pistol rounds and even with .223. I have never tried 700-X powder so i can't say how well it meters. I have used the disks and the adjustable charge bar both with success. I am using VV N-320 and HP-38 powders. I get very consistent charges with both with HP-38 being the best. Almost always spot on, but if there is a variance it is +-0.1 gn. When I sit down to load a batch, I weigh the first 4 or 5 charges and then I just start cranking, visually inspecting the powder in the case while still in the shell holder. I have a little led light attached to the side of the LCT that helps. I then weigh about every 15th round or so and also the last one that I do before quitting. I cranked out 150 9mm last night and didn't have to re-measure one charge. I am weighing on an RCBS Chargemaster 1500 scale. I also have the Frankford Arsenal DS-750 which I used until I got the RCBS rig. I like it, particularly for the price.

 

[TenDriver]

Putting a baffle in that Lee PPM turns it into a different animal. It still won't meter 700-X especially well, but better than it is now. Some powders just don't meter well...

Baffles are easy BTW. I used the side of an empty Accurate bottle, cut a circle, bent in the middle and cut triangular slots in either side. Voila, a baffle.

Now my only major problem with it is Titegroup and H-110 sticking up the action. Looks like the 110 leaks out the side causing it to stick.

 

[PJSprog]

I've been using the Lee dippers for about 25 years. They work great for me and my loads, which never approach max. However, if you're looking for consistently precise loads to the 1/10th of a grain every time, that's probably not the measuring device for you. It can be done, if you have the patience to trickle into a scale pan for every charge. Not the most efficient for higher volume loading, though. As previously noted, too, your technique has to be consistent.

 

[Steven57]

Talked to LEE on the phone and they said 700-X and other flake powders will be inconsistant. It doesn't measure well. Ball powder the best, then extruded, flake last. Agree that if need total accuracy then need to trickle to every load. I too stay away from MAX only because the lower loads so far for me have been the most accurate.

Working on some .223 tonight. Waiting on all the snow and rain to stop to test everything out.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

Nothing like someone making a product for years knowing that it doesn't work with flake powders. :banghead:

Every measure can benefit from a baffle. IMO one should be included. The cost to the manufacturer would be less than 50 cents, and help the measure. Guess they figure more money can be made selling the baffle separately. So beat the scam by making your own: click for Baffle Instructions

 

[Rico567]

In manually operated measures, I've used the Lyman 55, the Ohaus Du-O-Measure, and now an RCBS Uniflow. These were all accurate ±.1 gr. with everything except stick powders. With those, say ± .2 gr.

In press-mounted measures, I've used the Lee Auto Disk and the Dillon (the one on the 650, don't know if there are any others Dillon makes). These both deliver ± .1 gr. with pistol charges.

 

[sexybeast]

Welcome to the wonderful world of 700x. Other tough to measure flake powders too. Try some titegroup or hp38/231 and watch your results improve.
700x, 800x, Red Dot, Unique, and so many other of the large flake powders started out as shotgun powders. They can be used for pistol with much smaller charges but its not easy. A few people on this forum say that their measures do well with these powders but mine don't. I also use the Lee Disc powder measure.

 

[witchhunter]

Don't forget to wipe em out with a dryer sheet to eliminate static, it makes the powder flow a little better. Same for funnels.

 

[OrangePwrx9]

I think it's a matter of using the right tool for the job. I have an RCBS Uniflow. It meters very well with ball powders; W296 is a joy to use in that measure. OTOH, coarse flake powders like Red Dot and Unique aren't very consistent; neither are stick powders like IMR4350.

Variations of +- 0.3 grains are common. This isn't a big deal with 4350 because the charge weights are heavy. Cutting grains on every handle-pull is more annoyance than anything. It is a big deal with the fast flake powders because you're only using 3 to 5 grains per round.

My Lee PPM works very well with stick powders. No grain cutting and very consistent charges. It's my go-to measure when I'm loading 3031 in .223 or
Varget in .308. You can forget the PPM with the fine ball powders...unless having powder all over the bench and the floor doesn't bother you. Never tried the PPM with flake powders.

The Lee Auto-Disk works reasonably well with flake powders unless the charge is light. The Lee documentation for the A-D admits there's a problem with cavities smaller than .43 when using coarse flake powders. Supposedly tapping on the measure with a screwdriver handle gets around it. Far too optimistic in my view. I don't see any kind of consistency from the A-D until the cavity is .61 or larger when I load Unique or Red Dot. Even tapping with a screwdriver won't help the smaller cavities. I've seen variations (on the light side) of over 1.5 grains.

What the Auto-Disk does work well with is Bullseye (2.8 gr. charges and up) and powders like W231. Too bad they're both so hard to find. I seem to recall the A-D doing well with AA2230 when loading .223; but again, +-0.2 grains means nothing in a typical rifle charge and the large cavities fill better anyway.

I'm face-to-face with the coarse flake-light charge issue now. I've got a fair amount of e3 and Promo (both like Red Dot) and am trying to spare a relatively small supply of Bullseye. Below 4.0 grains, the Uniflow does the best, but it's still +0.2 grains, -0.3 grains. This forces me to weigh nearly every charge for .38 target loads. Now I know why I bought that powder trickler.

 

[morcey2]

On my Lee PPM, I get +-0.2 gr with IMR4064, H4350, Varget, and H4895 after I installed a home-made baffle made from a prescription-bottle lid. It fits perfectly inside the hopper and has made it throw much more consistently from full-hopper to almost-empty-hopper. Before the baffle, it was +-1 gr with IMR4064 so I was trickling every load. It didn't change things much for any ball powders and I don't throw any flake powders so I don't know if it would help with that. If I'm loading close to max, I'll still measure and trickle each one, but loading 150gr bullets in 30-06, I set it to 52 gr, throw about 10 for consistency and measure every 8th charge. Because of the loading tray I use, the 8th one is easier to remember.

The baffle is a prescription bottle lid with 1/4" x 1/4" holes cut in four spots around the perimeter and slipped inside the hopper.

Matt

 

[kerreckt]

I use a Lee ppm and find that it is very accurate with stick and ball powders. In fact, it is more consistently accurate with these powder than either my Lyman55 or RCBS uniflow and much faster to set up. I haven't found any powder measure that will consistently and accurately measure flake powders. None work for me any better than about a .3gr. error margin with flake. That includes the Lee ppm.

 

[trigga]

i bought two different kits from lee and therefore got two beam scales. they both read different although both have been zeroed to the same pan. I've notice the frankford digital scale is kind of finicky with lower weight charges. sometimes it would read +/- .1 grains off especially if you let it sit between weighs. I've had a similar issue and just learned not to use max data. The PP measure is accurate to a point if you repeat the process the same each time like tapping it. Some powder also measures more accurately than others.

 

[noylj]

The Lee PPM is about the single most consistent powder measure I have ever used (this includes Dillon, Hornady, and RCBS). It just feels like junk.
For ALL powder measures:
1) when you finish pouring powder in the hopper, shake the measure a few times to settle the powder
2) Always go "tap, tap" when you raise and lower the handle.
3) Always throw at least 10 drops before ever even considering weighing a charge. When you make a change, throw another 5-10 throws before you weigh the charge
4) large flake powders will sometimes meter indifferently, but they also shoot very accurately despite the small weight variations. Unless you max load is at less than 4.0gn, the occasional 0.2gn addition will not harm anything. Don't use a large flake powder if this bothers you or buy an RCBS ChargeMaster.
5) Consistency of operations is everything.

 

[ironworkerwill]

Jesse Heywood : Nothing like someone making a product for years knowing that it doesn't work with flake powders.

Every measure can benefit from a baffle. IMO one should be included. The cost to the manufacturer would be less than 50 cents, and help the measure. Guess they figure more money can be made selling the baffle separately. So beat the scam by making your own: click for Baffle Instructions

That is a great link! I have tried to make my own but never could make it do what I wanted it to do! These guys done the math. Thanks Jesse! See link at post 11