Powder not recommended for specific bullet weights?

[Pete D.]

set up

I priced out a full setup on a single stage ......for under a grand

A single stage set up....for under a grand. It should be well under a grand.
What did they include?

For some comparison shopping:
RCBS Rockchucker Supreme kit - $289.00
Hornady Lock N Load Classic kit - $310.00
Lee Challenger Breech Lock SStage kit $114-$140. (this is a best buy)

These all come with balance beam scales and powder measures. Invest in an electronic scale if you wish and you are still under $500.

 

[webrx]

Hi,

First off, I am a noob, so I have no where near the knowledge the folks above have, but I did go through the same calculations you are wondering about. I started with determining what caliber I shot the most and which I hated buying ammo for due to cost. I shoot more 38 and 9 than anything else, but I also shoot 45 colt and a few different rifles.

For me, while rifles rounds are often expensive, I decided to reload and calculate ROI on 45 colt. I basically found that I can pay for my reloading setup including universal shell holders and a universal decapping die (that allowed me to decap and clean my other brass), universal powder measures, digital scale, caliper, RCBS partner press and .45 colt 4 die set once I had loaded just 500 rounds of .45 colt. After that your cost per goes way down as you are only buying dies, powder and bullets for each round.

Assumption was 5 grains of trailboss and that 9 oz of trailboss = 3937 grains
Bullets were LRNFP Cast and cost to buy .45 colt is about 32 a box where I live, sometimes 36 or 40.

I have more reloading stuff now, but, I was able to load .45 colt with just what was on this list and could have done this one caliber for 50 less if I had not bought the universal stuff so I could start prepping the brass I already had. When I did that calculation, I had a total cost of 179.60 and broke even at 323 rounds of .45 colt.



Hope this helps, ask questions if the spreadsheet is not clear enough

Dave

 

[OIFumbled]

I didn't get a specific price quote, but the thousand would leave me several hundred after getting the press (I believe we were talking a dillon 550), scale, trimmer/sizer, dies for 4-5 calibers, brass cleaner, and assorted other items. His quote was closer to 600 including two dies, but I didn't do a proper budget on all of it at the time. The next time I go there I will have more time to do so.

The prices per round that I came up with were as follows (not including brass):
.223 .25
.308 .50
.40sw .17
.45acp .18
9mm luger .15
For .308 that would be with hornady 168's for paper only, it would be slightly more for hunting rounds.

The savings I calculated per 500 rds:
.223 33.54
.308 38.67
.40sw 61
.45acp 90.33
9mm luger 38.27

When you include the cost of brass (going with the cheapest option, of either processed once-fired [non federal] or starline in the case of .45 acp), only 40 s&w and .45 acp had a cost savings over buying brass cartridged ammunition in bulk.

In the cartridges I'm most likely to be firing often (.223, .308, 9mm, 40 S&W), it is more cost effective to buy ammunitions that have reloadable brass up front, and then clean and reload it after initial firing.

Going purely on savings at the current rate, it would take reloading (without purchasing brass) about 12-15000 rds in total to break even, if my initial setup costs 1k. That would be probably 2-3 years worth of shooting. Needless to say, I think it will be more enjoyment that I do it for, though having the skillset and equipment alone is never a bad idea.

 

[Pete D.]

bulk and cast

There are ways to lower those per cartridge costs:
.45 ACP for .18...$9 per 50.
I load match ammo for for less than $4/50. I have brass as a benefit of shooting for a long time and for scrounging when I can. (.45 ACP brass lasts a long time).
And I cast my own bullets and have access to free lead alloy......so the only costs are primers and propellant.
My point is not "lucky me"...there are quite a few shooters who are able to do as well or better.
Also, a key idea for any cartridge is to buy in bulk....as much bulk as you can afford. Your powder in 8lb kegs and your primers by the 10K.
(or more).
BTW - before you go spending on .308 Sierra MatchKings or the equivalent, try some inexpensive Remington or Winchester 165s. They may well shoot as well and you can shoot more of them for the same money,
Pete

 

[OIFumbled]

I'm still so fresh to it that it's an issue of 'not knowing what I don't know', like not knowing if the sites I'm using for pricing stuff out are decent options, or if there are much lower price alternatives out there. (Powder would likely be bought locally to avoid the hazmat fees, but most other things were priced out through midway or midsouth. Brass was sourced through various outlets, but isn't included in the price)

I have zero casting experience, and wouldn't even know where to start to look for low cost/free lead alloys. Hats off to you, though, for getting the cost down so low. It seems like the major cost, especially in pistol calibers, is the bullet. Outside of the two previously listed sources, are there other sources for bulk/nonbulk bullet purchases that would be better priced? (outside of free through own labor, of course)

Do you have supplementary costs for casting your own? I ask because when I remove the cost of bullets for .45 acp, it drops the cost to about $3/50rds. That would be with a midrange load of Hodgdon Universal, and a CCI#300 primer (bought in the 1lb and 1k size respectively)

 

[mstreddy]

OIFumbled,
You can look at the costs in several ways, but the point is that by reloading XX caliber, you will recoup "savings" of $x amount. Over time, you will get your ROI.
Yes, you can save a lot more by casting, but I would recommend that you step into the hobby a little at a time.
Get a good understanding of reloading, both for rifle and pistol, since you opened the discussion with rifle powder suitability, and now you are mentioning 45 ACP.
The biggest key in quickly reaching your ROI is volume (loading and shooting) -- that's it! Or, not spending as much up front.

I'm going to give you 2 examples on ROI using real world info:
One of my buddies - Quags on this forum, got started not too long ago. He bought a Lee Turret press, scale, powder measure, dies, tumbler, dies and other tools and equipment. He spent around $410 for the setup. Based on his volume of shooting/loading at the time for 45 ACP, 38 Spcl, 9MM and 223, his ROI was 1.9 months. Since then, he's added more equipment, and more calibers, but needless to say, it's all "paid off".

In my own example, I've acquired my equipment/tools over several years, but over the X years I have spent around $1800 - 2000. 2 Hornady LNL APs, A Rock Chucker, dies for 28 Cartridges/calibers, etc. Based on my volume of shooting -- only for my most common rounds 9MM, 45 ACP, 38 Spcl, 223, 380 ACP. My ROI was in 10 months.
That's based on 400 rds per month of 9MM reloaded cost $5.60 vs store $12 for 50 rds
200 rds per month of 380 ACP reloaded cost $5.25 vs store $16 for 50 rds
100 rds per month of 38 SPCL reloaded cost $5.00 vs store $14 for 50 rds
100 rds per month of 45 ACP 9MM reloaded cost $6.50 vs store $20 for 50 rds
and 200 rds per month of 223 reloaded cost $3.80 vs store $8 for 20 rds (brass cased)

Obviously, if you load 308, 30-06 in volume your savings will be even greater.
I can send you an excel sheet for this if you would like.

The best advice I can give you is save your brass, pick up every piece of brass you see and your brass costs will go WAY down!

One last thing I'll mention regarding costs and powder. Sometimes folks get hung up the price of one powder over another. When you really calculate it, the difference of a few bucks in a pound of powder will be negligible in loading most calibers. Think of it this way - 223 uses around 20-25 grains on average for powder. If a pound costs $20 or $25 how much is that per round? 25grs at $20 is 0.0714 per round. 25grs at $25 .0893.
In reloading the big savings is in reusing the brass.

 

[Milt1]

Powder is cheap,if you enjoy shooting at targets and perhaps hunting, then get into the reloading hobby. I think you'll find it's enjoyable and you'll learn something new all the time you're doing it.

 

[mstreddy]

OIF, another point - even though your local shop is there and they carry reloading equipment you may want to check some of the larger online stores.
Here are some of my favorites:
For powder and primers the sites I check often are --
http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/
www.grafs.com
http://www.gamaliel.com/
http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com/
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com
http://www.wideners.com
www.recobs.com
For reloading equipment it pays to comparison shop, and don't forget to add shipping as it can add up on a press. Most of the above sites carry equipment as well.
For bullets -- I shop Midway, Grafs, Midsouth, etc, and also go to http://www.shop.rmrbullets.com/, and powdervalley for plated and bulk, I've also bought from http://www.precisiondelta.com, and now http://www.xtremebullets.com/ for plated at some pretty good deals.
I have gone straight to http://berrysmfg.com/ (manufacturer). Some times you can get a better price on the Berry's at Powdervalley, so you have to shop/compare. Also compare shipping cause with bullets it can add up. Cabelas has good deals from time to time on Berry's and Xtreme, so keep an eye out for them.
I buy lead bullets from http://www.missouribullet.com/ primarily as their service is great and they have good prices.

And as others have mentioned, for a good single stage or turret, you can be up and running for much less than the $1000. Right around $300 - 500.

 

[OIFumbled]

I'm bookmarking this page for that list of links, thanks again to everyone. I'm not really hung up on the price of powder, brass, or reloading in general. It's more nostalgia for when I could get a brick of .22 and a carton of my then favorite name brand cigarettes for $20 (I'm talking less than 15 years ago, sadly). Now it's closer to $200.

Also, not that it really matters, but after discussing it with the wife, I will probably be focusing more on 9mm than .45, at least early on. We're both getting our CCW's in the near future (already took the class, just have to take the certs to the sheriff's office), and are planning to train with what we carry, which will likely be 9mm (she prefers the recoil, and we decided to focus on one caliber instead of two for the time being for handguns).

I'm not really hung up on the details, I just had to flesh the ideas out, and understand it better for my own piece of mind (pun intended). Thank you to everyone who has helped me get to that point.

Also, while I will take the reloading course, and possibly get supplies from that gun shop, I have no major loyalties when it comes to buying all of my equipment there. It's all about my time/money/value etc., and like many things in life, it's a 'pick two' sort of thing.

 

[Hardtarget]

May I ask...what is this "save money" thing you are speaking of?

I seem to shoot up any savings...just saying.

Also, reloading is about the most gizmo/gadget heavy hobby there is! You will always find something to add to your bench. Nature of the beast!

So, you get into reloading for the FUN of it. Bring your wife in with you. She just might surprise you (and herself) as to how much she enjoys it...and the shooting too!

Have fun with it.

Mark

 

[Hardtarget]

Mods...I messed up! Please delete.

 

[clearcut]

If it cost a grand to get started I never would have. I started with a lee loader and a framing hammer that I used for work.I have (way) more than a grand in loading stuff now but it was collected over the years.Once I started I got drawn in more and more. But I love it! From the simple fact of saving $ to the complete science of load development, casting,and accuracy of hand loads.

CC

 

[rsnell]

Do not try to pick one powder for two very different calibers. Why do you think there are so many different powders listed for one bullet weight in on caliber? The firearm will determine what powder and primer combination to use.