"Powder to start with"
- Thread starter smokjunkee
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CZ57
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WA: they haven't put me on the payroll yet! With True Blue, I've spent very little time developing loads, and in some cases first time out, before I've seen really good accuracy. It could be a relationship between this powder and my 75 B, but is is the most accurate powder I've ever used in .40 S&W. I followed the lead of the writer who does the Handloading column at Gun World, or did in 2000, and of several powders he used in an article on .40 S&W accuracy, True Blue turned out to give the best accuracy, and in a CZ, so I had a bias even though I just bought the 75 B last November. I've used it in a number of .45 ACP and 9mm loads as well. Accuracy has been there in every case. It works very well in .38 Special and to experiment, I've used it in .357 Magnum as well. It works as well as any general use powder will in a .357 magnum case. Usually I don't load .357 magnum with anything faster than 3N37, or AA#7 and usually then for 3" revolvers to get better velocity and minimize flash, or seven shooters for a few guys that own them.
Silhouette is a bit different because it is nothing more than a continuation of a powder that was already great with WAP. It works well in .40 and probably has an edge in 9mm as far as velocity potential. It will get higher velocity in .40 as well, but True Blue will get you to factory load level and has about the lightest recoil impulse I can remember getting with a .40 S&W pistol with full power loads. I haven't used Zip yet, but mainly because Ramshot's data for .45 ACP with Zip is a bit lackluster. I don't use plated bullets, so I'd think about judging Zip with jacketed or cast before any conclusions based on using plated. I should mention that True Blue has worked well enough for me that I haven't had a pressing need to try Zip in .45 ACP. I have several True Blue loads that will do the one-hole thing with a Ruger P-345. But, the data I mentioned from Sierra shed a whole different light on Zip. I plan to take a hard look at Enforcer in .357 and .41 Magnum. I use X-terminator in .30-30 Win. Many are now using it and TAC in .223.
I started using Vihta Vouri powders almost as soon as I heard about them in 1990 and still use 3N37. I started looking at Ramshot Powders in 2000 and talked to their ballistician who told me several things including Silhouette is WAP, I'd ran across an older Winchester load guide and noticed the charges for WAP were identical to those listed for Silhouette and I was suspicious they could be the same powder. All of their powders except it and Competition are from Belgium. Silhouette and Competition both made by Primex and I suspect that Competition is very similar to WST, or one of Hodgdon's, but I've never asked. True Blue showed exceptional Standard Deviation numbers in all data. That went from .380 to the .454 Casull. Almost all of them are below 10 and a number are at 5 or less. He assured me that the numbers were justified. Say what you will about Standard Deviation and whether or not it equates into accuracy, but when a powder can do this from .380 to .454 Casull, it speaks volumes about consistency, to me anyway. One reason I mention it when we get into these all around powder discussions. And, at 935 grams per liter, it meters exceptionally. What could be better for a new handloader, or a guy that wants minimum powder inventory? I believe it is a good bit superior to Unique and it easily outperforms 231. The uniformity aspect was what interested me, as well as the price of V-V getting higher and higher. Their first load booklet showed pressure curve analysis for True Blue, Silhouette and Zip. It also included +P loads for True Blue in 9mm. Obviously, you can overload with any powder, but the pressure rise from minimum to peak pressure with True Blue has to be one of the most stable I've ever seen, and the very low SD numbers come with start charges as often as they do near or at max. charges. I can't get it local either, so it took me a while before I ordered. To justify the Haz-Mat and all, I ordered four pounds first time out. It was money very well spent. I learned recently that True Blue is used by FNH to load the 5.7 X 28mm and data has been given to guys requesting it for the 7.62 X 25mm and it performs very well by all accounts.
Silhouette is a bit different because it is nothing more than a continuation of a powder that was already great with WAP. It works well in .40 and probably has an edge in 9mm as far as velocity potential. It will get higher velocity in .40 as well, but True Blue will get you to factory load level and has about the lightest recoil impulse I can remember getting with a .40 S&W pistol with full power loads. I haven't used Zip yet, but mainly because Ramshot's data for .45 ACP with Zip is a bit lackluster. I don't use plated bullets, so I'd think about judging Zip with jacketed or cast before any conclusions based on using plated. I should mention that True Blue has worked well enough for me that I haven't had a pressing need to try Zip in .45 ACP. I have several True Blue loads that will do the one-hole thing with a Ruger P-345. But, the data I mentioned from Sierra shed a whole different light on Zip. I plan to take a hard look at Enforcer in .357 and .41 Magnum. I use X-terminator in .30-30 Win. Many are now using it and TAC in .223.
I started using Vihta Vouri powders almost as soon as I heard about them in 1990 and still use 3N37. I started looking at Ramshot Powders in 2000 and talked to their ballistician who told me several things including Silhouette is WAP, I'd ran across an older Winchester load guide and noticed the charges for WAP were identical to those listed for Silhouette and I was suspicious they could be the same powder. All of their powders except it and Competition are from Belgium. Silhouette and Competition both made by Primex and I suspect that Competition is very similar to WST, or one of Hodgdon's, but I've never asked. True Blue showed exceptional Standard Deviation numbers in all data. That went from .380 to the .454 Casull. Almost all of them are below 10 and a number are at 5 or less. He assured me that the numbers were justified. Say what you will about Standard Deviation and whether or not it equates into accuracy, but when a powder can do this from .380 to .454 Casull, it speaks volumes about consistency, to me anyway. One reason I mention it when we get into these all around powder discussions. And, at 935 grams per liter, it meters exceptionally. What could be better for a new handloader, or a guy that wants minimum powder inventory? I believe it is a good bit superior to Unique and it easily outperforms 231. The uniformity aspect was what interested me, as well as the price of V-V getting higher and higher. Their first load booklet showed pressure curve analysis for True Blue, Silhouette and Zip. It also included +P loads for True Blue in 9mm. Obviously, you can overload with any powder, but the pressure rise from minimum to peak pressure with True Blue has to be one of the most stable I've ever seen, and the very low SD numbers come with start charges as often as they do near or at max. charges. I can't get it local either, so it took me a while before I ordered. To justify the Haz-Mat and all, I ordered four pounds first time out. It was money very well spent. I learned recently that True Blue is used by FNH to load the 5.7 X 28mm and data has been given to guys requesting it for the 7.62 X 25mm and it performs very well by all accounts.
I stand by my post that W231 and Universal Clays are good powders to start with which was the question of the poster. They are both forgiving, easy to work with, and give good to very good accuracy. Good qualities for the begining reloader.
True Blue is in the burn rate area where I don't dought it works well at full power in the 9MM, .40 S&W, & .45 ACP, although I would think it a bit slow for all but max stuff with the .45.
Maybe it downloads well. If it does then we may have another "universal" type powder in a slower burn rate than those generally accepted as such.
I don't care about making the .45 bark any more. My old wrist, elbow, and shoulder can't take it any more. I like heavy slow stuff in the .40 and reasonbly fast 115 to 124 Gr. stuff in the 9MM. I might even try some 147's in the 9MM, but I dought it. The other stuff is low recoil already.
I like to make a big bang sometimes, but not for a lot of shooting anymore. I download my .44 mags mostly. I never have liked the .357. I have a couple, but I download .357 brass to .38 levels.
Keep singing True Blues praises and I'll have to try a pound. What the heck, I tried most everything else it seems.
I'm just offering friendly advice to folks. I don't claim to be better or smarter than anybody else, nor do I have all the answers. Most don't care a flip about the perfect load. They just want something safe, cheap, easy to load, reasonably accurate and fun.
True Blue is in the burn rate area where I don't dought it works well at full power in the 9MM, .40 S&W, & .45 ACP, although I would think it a bit slow for all but max stuff with the .45.
Maybe it downloads well. If it does then we may have another "universal" type powder in a slower burn rate than those generally accepted as such.
I don't care about making the .45 bark any more. My old wrist, elbow, and shoulder can't take it any more. I like heavy slow stuff in the .40 and reasonbly fast 115 to 124 Gr. stuff in the 9MM. I might even try some 147's in the 9MM, but I dought it. The other stuff is low recoil already.
I like to make a big bang sometimes, but not for a lot of shooting anymore. I download my .44 mags mostly. I never have liked the .357. I have a couple, but I download .357 brass to .38 levels.
Keep singing True Blues praises and I'll have to try a pound. What the heck, I tried most everything else it seems.
I'm just offering friendly advice to folks. I don't claim to be better or smarter than anybody else, nor do I have all the answers. Most don't care a flip about the perfect load. They just want something safe, cheap, easy to load, reasonably accurate and fun.
CZ57
member
Ramshot has it placed too low on the burn rate chart and they'll tell you that. Most other burn rate charts will place it right where I mentioned. Not too slow for .45 ACP at all, in fact it's about like AA#5 in .45 ACP.
CZ57
member
Too slow was what I meant, WA. You caught my drift. Ramshot lists it just before N350 and it's not that slow. Most other charts rate it like N340.
You like AA#5 and 231, you might want to stick with them.
You like AA#5 and 231, you might want to stick with them.
skeeter1
Member
As you get into reloading, you'll find there is no "one perfect powder" even for the same cartridge. My .38 practice loads get Hodgdon Universal, but if I'm loading +Ps, I use W231. Same thing goes for shot shells. RedDot for target loads, GreenDot for waterfowl loads. The rifle reloaders are much more finnecky still. There's just no "one size fits all" when it comes to powder.
After a while, you'll find some favorite items. For my .38s/.357s, I've come to like CCI primers and Hornady XTP bullets best, but that's just me. I'm sure you'll find many others to give you compelling reasons why they like their choices and why their combo is better, and I'm not one to argue. We each like to think we have our own "secret recipe." That's part of the fun of handloading.
After a while, you'll find some favorite items. For my .38s/.357s, I've come to like CCI primers and Hornady XTP bullets best, but that's just me. I'm sure you'll find many others to give you compelling reasons why they like their choices and why their combo is better, and I'm not one to argue. We each like to think we have our own "secret recipe." That's part of the fun of handloading.
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