peacebutready
Member
I acquired the impression a person will get less power in a .38 Special or .44 Special load if shot through a magnum revolver compared to a dedicated .38/.44 revolver. Is that correct? How much power is lost?
Power loss shooting .38/.44 through magnum revolvers
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Barry the Bear
Member
Consider this chart from buffalo bore
1255 fps -- Ruger GP 100, 6 inch barrel, 357 mag.
1186 fps -- S&W Combat Masterpiece 6 inch barrel, 38 SPL (circa 1958)
1146 fps -- S&W Mt. Gun, 4 inch barrel, 357 mag.
1167 fps -- S&W Mod. 15, 4 inch barrel, 38 SPL (circa 1968)
1112 fps -- Ruger SP 101, 3 inch barrel, 38 SPL
1043 fps -- S&W Mod 66, 2.5 inch barrel, 357 mag.
989 fps -- S&W Mod 340PD, 1 & 7/8 inch barrel, 357 mag.
1027 fps -- S&W Mod 642 (pre dash), 1 & 7/8 inch barrel, 38 SPL
Item 20H - Exterior Ballistics
this is regarding the .38 special outdoorsman round. As you can see sometimes velocity INCREASED using a .357 mag gun, but also lost some but the loss is not significant.
1255 fps -- Ruger GP 100, 6 inch barrel, 357 mag.
1186 fps -- S&W Combat Masterpiece 6 inch barrel, 38 SPL (circa 1958)
1146 fps -- S&W Mt. Gun, 4 inch barrel, 357 mag.
1167 fps -- S&W Mod. 15, 4 inch barrel, 38 SPL (circa 1968)
1112 fps -- Ruger SP 101, 3 inch barrel, 38 SPL
1043 fps -- S&W Mod 66, 2.5 inch barrel, 357 mag.
989 fps -- S&W Mod 340PD, 1 & 7/8 inch barrel, 357 mag.
1027 fps -- S&W Mod 642 (pre dash), 1 & 7/8 inch barrel, 38 SPL
Item 20H - Exterior Ballistics
this is regarding the .38 special outdoorsman round. As you can see sometimes velocity INCREASED using a .357 mag gun, but also lost some but the loss is not significant.
BobWright
Member
Ummmm, not sure I follow your line of thought here.
You're sayin, or asking, if a .44 Special cartridge will deliver less performance when fired in a .44 Magnum revovler, as compared to being fired in a .44 Special revolver? In other words, a given .44 Special cartridge when fired in a .44 Special will out perform one fired in a .44 Magnum?
There is absolutely no way anyone can gauge that. There will even be some difference in performance when fired in two different .44 Special revolvers all other things being equal.
And my next question that comes to my somewhat weak and confused mind, if performance is a concern, why use the Special round in a Magnum anyway?
Bob Wright
You're sayin, or asking, if a .44 Special cartridge will deliver less performance when fired in a .44 Magnum revovler, as compared to being fired in a .44 Special revolver? In other words, a given .44 Special cartridge when fired in a .44 Special will out perform one fired in a .44 Magnum?
There is absolutely no way anyone can gauge that. There will even be some difference in performance when fired in two different .44 Special revolvers all other things being equal.
And my next question that comes to my somewhat weak and confused mind, if performance is a concern, why use the Special round in a Magnum anyway?
Bob Wright
Barry the Bear
Member
Im thinking he means lost velocity due to the bullet having to travel farther in a magnum cyclinder.
788Ham
Member
Is that 44 Spl. cartridge "that" much longer than the .44 mag? Length it has to travel out of the mag cylinder causing it to have slower speed? Yea, I guess, about like shooting a .38 Spl round out of a .357 revolver. That little difference wouldn't matter at all. I shoot .38's out of my SP 101 .357 revolver all the time, I sure can't tell any difference! YMMV
Master Blaster
Member
Barrel length is more of a factor than cylinder length. A 6" barrel is going to give you more velocity than a 2" , irregardless of the cylinder length special or magnum.
Lucky Derby
Member
Barrel Length & cylinder gap will have a far greater impact than the miniscule difference between a Special and Magnum cylinder.
peacebutready
Member
Code:
Ummmm, not sure I follow your line of thought here.
You're sayin, or asking, if a .44 Special cartridge will deliver less performance when fired in a .44 Magnum revovler, as compared to being fired in a .44 Special revolver? In other words, a given .44 Special cartridge when fired in a .44 Special will out perform one fired in a .44 Magnum?Yes
Yes, I know about that variation.
The magnum revolver gives versatility. The best stopping power is marksmanship, so if a person can't currently fire a magnum well, the person is better off with the special loads.
Also with the magnum, a person can use specials for home defense and magnum loads when hiking to defend against big cats and bears. I read with big cats, chances are you won't know you're attacked until the cat is on top of you. There the revolver is the wilderness version of a "belly gun."
peacebutready
Member
I figured something like this.
peacebutready
Member
Thanks, all.
Happy shooting this weekend, if applicable.
Happy shooting this weekend, if applicable.
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BobWright
Member
Peacebutready:
You make a couple of good points. I'm so locked into my shooting situation I often fail to see situations such as you describe.
As to my own battery, if I want a milder round that a full magnum round, I simply load a lighter load. And if I want to shoot .44 Specials, I opt for selecting one of my .44 Specials. I often fail to realize many folks don't have that option.
But, if you original question has not been squarely addressed, the loss, or gain, in performance is insignificant.
Bob Wright
You make a couple of good points. I'm so locked into my shooting situation I often fail to see situations such as you describe.
As to my own battery, if I want a milder round that a full magnum round, I simply load a lighter load. And if I want to shoot .44 Specials, I opt for selecting one of my .44 Specials. I often fail to realize many folks don't have that option.
But, if you original question has not been squarely addressed, the loss, or gain, in performance is insignificant.
Bob Wright
BCRider
Member
That chart from Buffalo Bore has no bearing on the question. As mentioned already there are so many different factors that will have a greater effect on the guns that any difference will be lost even if you use the same ammo in two different guns where one is Magnum and the other is a Special. Variations in the fit of the forcing cone, fit of the bullet in the rifling, the ROUGHNESS of the rifling and likely a few other things will produce as much or more difference than what you are looking for. So the simple fact that they use a variety of guns simply means there are a whole lot of variations in different guns.
Technically there is very slightly more room for gas to escape around the longer freebore before the bullet enters the throat. But in practice this will be so slight that any such effect, if there is any at all, will be lost in the effect from the many other aspects between one gun and another.
Technically there is very slightly more room for gas to escape around the longer freebore before the bullet enters the throat. But in practice this will be so slight that any such effect, if there is any at all, will be lost in the effect from the many other aspects between one gun and another.
Godsgunman
Member
At first I didn't quite understand what you were hinting at but I get it now. I think the theory you are hinting at deals with the difference of cylinder length and the intsy tintsy more length that a bullet shot from a special case compared to a magnum case before the bullet enters the barrel. Makes sense but as others have said I think its so miniscule that it probably doesn't cause a consistent fluctuation. And really, whats 10-15 fps anyways?
There is some that theorize the extra length of the .357 mag chamber and jump to the forcing cone will result in lower velocities with .38 spl ammo vrs a revolver chambered for the .38 spl.
The theory doesn't hold up to scientific method real world testing of different guns chambered for the different cartridges. There are enough differences other than the chambering that affect velocity and accuracy between different guns of the same barrel length that one cannot say as a rule chambering by its self will make any difference in velocity or accuracy for the .38 spl when shot in a .38 vrs a .357 mag revolver.
The theory doesn't hold up to scientific method real world testing of different guns chambered for the different cartridges. There are enough differences other than the chambering that affect velocity and accuracy between different guns of the same barrel length that one cannot say as a rule chambering by its self will make any difference in velocity or accuracy for the .38 spl when shot in a .38 vrs a .357 mag revolver.
I suspect Buffalo Bore is blowing smoke there. A variation of +/- 20 fps is common within the cartridges in the same box of factory loaded ammo. But if someone wants to "prove" something, the figures can be cherry picked any way that is wanted.
Jim
Jim
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
I'll relate an experience that I had and let you draw your own conclusions.
Bored one winter's day a few years back, I decided to see if I could increase the capacity of my .45 Colt Winchester Trapper by trimming the brass down to Schofield length. It worked, by the way...barely. I had .45 Schofield brass on the agenda, but it was only available in 100-round lots and I didn't want to spend the money for that much brass until I'd tested the results...so I manned the case trimmer.
Understanding that reduced case capacity increases pressure with identical powder charges, I backed off from my go-to of 9 grains of Unique with a cast 250-grain bullet. (I use the same load for the carbine and a New Vaquero)
Test firing produced much-reduced recoil, and I suspected a healthy velocity loss which the chronograph bore out. I don't remember the exact figures, but it was substantial.
I increased the charge a half-grain at a time with the intention of bringing the velocity in line with what I'd previously had in the carbine with 9 grains Unique...and stopped trying when I hit 10.5 grains and still wasn't within 50 fps.
The only explanation that I could come up with that made sense was the longer jump to the leade caused a loss of pressure.
Bored one winter's day a few years back, I decided to see if I could increase the capacity of my .45 Colt Winchester Trapper by trimming the brass down to Schofield length. It worked, by the way...barely. I had .45 Schofield brass on the agenda, but it was only available in 100-round lots and I didn't want to spend the money for that much brass until I'd tested the results...so I manned the case trimmer.
Understanding that reduced case capacity increases pressure with identical powder charges, I backed off from my go-to of 9 grains of Unique with a cast 250-grain bullet. (I use the same load for the carbine and a New Vaquero)
Test firing produced much-reduced recoil, and I suspected a healthy velocity loss which the chronograph bore out. I don't remember the exact figures, but it was substantial.
I increased the charge a half-grain at a time with the intention of bringing the velocity in line with what I'd previously had in the carbine with 9 grains Unique...and stopped trying when I hit 10.5 grains and still wasn't within 50 fps.
The only explanation that I could come up with that made sense was the longer jump to the leade caused a loss of pressure.
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