Bullseye_shooter
Member
Some compare a 9mm +P+ to a .40 S&W
Do they really match up?
Do they really match up?
Practicality of 9mm +P+ loads???
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Erich
Member
Yes. Talk to a pathologist if you want to hear the true importance of bullet width.
Shot-placement and adequate penetration are what you need for handgun stops.
Shot-placement and adequate penetration are what you need for handgun stops.
Bullseye_shooter
Member
I am a preacher of shot-placement first stopping power second
I was just wonder because other than capacity per mag I don't see the
Reason
I was just wonder because other than capacity per mag I don't see the
Reason
REAPER4206969
Member
A good 124gr. standard pressure, or +P is sufficient.
there's a "feel good" factor for folks who buy into the "gotta start with a 4 crowd"
BushyGuy
Member
i think the .40 has better stopping power then the +p pressure but the 9mm has better penetration with +p pressure load.
REAPER4206969
Member
There is no such thing as "stopping power."
It's plenty practical, the U.S. loads 9mm to a level lower than the Europeans do, so since they have no issues with their hotter 9mm, there is no reason at all why we can't run our 9mm a little hotter as well. I don't think our +P is even as hot as their ordinary 9mm levels.
Doesn't make the 9mm a .40 though. Just what a 9mm should be. I am a strong advocate of both calibers.
Doesn't make the 9mm a .40 though. Just what a 9mm should be. I am a strong advocate of both calibers.
DevilDog0402
Member
I think a better comparison would be the 9mm +P+ compared to either .38 Super or .357 Sig since they are the same diameter and use some of the same bullet weights.
Although, I suppose you could compare the heavier 9mm rounds (124 and 147 grain) with the 135 and 155 grain .40 rounds...
357mag.
Member
Then we should all carry 22lr/mags then?
DFW1911
Member
Me too...and I carry one!!!
I think the +P+ is as practical as any other SD round you may load your pistol with and the past 20 years has seen some great developments in 9mm cartridges, so there are some great rounds out there.
As always test them in your particular gun for functionality.
jaysouth
Member
Two to the chest and one to the head makes irrelevant any internet commando keyboard nattering about bullet weight, velocity, bullet construction, gelatin tests, "stopping power", kinetic energy or any other gunmag scribbler inspired nitwittery.
Tell me that not a single person will die from a .22rf bullet wound next year! Tell me it ain't so.
Tell me that not a single person will die from a .22rf bullet wound next year! Tell me it ain't so.
Most of the best JHP designs now don't even come in +P+ anymore. They get better results without the need for the rating. That said, some of the +P+ loads really weren't anything special, nothing outside of very ordinary 9mm speeds.
Like the Federal Hydra-Shock 124+P+, it was only factory rated as going 1170 feet per second. Not impressive at all, considering that the 9mm NATO loading is a 124 at 1300 FPS if I remember correctly. Winchester's 127+P+ is rated at 1300. Weak medicine.
Like the Federal Hydra-Shock 124+P+, it was only factory rated as going 1170 feet per second. Not impressive at all, considering that the 9mm NATO loading is a 124 at 1300 FPS if I remember correctly. Winchester's 127+P+ is rated at 1300. Weak medicine.
My mistake, the 127+P+ seems to be just shy of 1300 FPS, more like 1270. Still, for two loads with similiar bullet weights and the same "overpressure" rating, a difference of at least one hundred feet per second is not good for the other one.
And I don't even think velocity is the most important part of the equation.
And I don't even think velocity is the most important part of the equation.
jaysouth
Member
I can't make 1150fps with WW M882 ball in my 92 Beretta. I don't think NATO spec is even close to 1300fps.
Barrel length has nothing to do with viscosity(?). Viscosity is 'stickiness' or density of liquid.
Barrel length has nothing to do with viscosity(?). Viscosity is 'stickiness' or density of liquid.
amd6547
Member
The ranger 127gn +P+ load is a good quality JHP delivered at a reasonable velocity, and which has proven to be the most accurate load of any kind in my 9mm's. Hardly "weak medicine" in my opinion.
76shuvlinoff
Member
I think that'll be my next sig line
. However my .45 with drop a charging rhino at 10 paces 
IMHO if the 9mm +P had be more readily available the .40 would've been stillborn... and yes I own subcompact 40.
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And I'm wrong again. Oh well. I wonder where I got that number from, I could swear I read it from a reputable source?
I know about viscosity, it was a little incorrect use of terms someone had that cracked me up, because I pictured some dude attaching a full jar of mayonnaise to the muzzle of his rifle before a shot, to check on the "muzzle viscosity". Hilarious mental image I got out of it.
AMD I was talking about the Federal 124+P+ Hydra-shock, it isn't a bad speed for a 124, but it is underwhelming for a load sold as a +P+. I don't even know what type of barrel Federal uses for their box velocity numbers. Their .40 135 grain Personal Defense load is the same speed, which makes me wonder why they used such a light bullet. Recoil control I suppose.
StuartTX
Member
The article that I read seemed to endorse 147 gr JHP. Since I have not found a +P HP round that weighs 147 gr I have not bothered with +P. This is all referring to 9mm ammo, by-the-way.
What I like about .40 S&W is that it gives me a wider selection of JHP loads with the terminal performance characteristics I prefer while operating at standard pressure, thereby allowing me to practice with common FMJ rounds that feel pretty much the same when fired (not that modern, standard-pressure 147 grain 9mm loads are anything to sneeze at, mind you--I'd feel confident using those, too). .40 S&W also deflects less when penetrating hard barriers at an angle (not a concern for everybody), penetrates them nearly as well as 9mm (and better than .45 ACP), and makes slightly larger holes (not significant from the point of view of some, but it's there and measurable).
I'm not saying that there's a big difference between the calibers, but since I'm limited to 10 rounds anyway (being in California), .40 S&W has some advantages, and I can shoot it just fine, then I figured why not?
Nice prose, and if I felt that I could consistently execute a perfect Mozambique Drill on potentially moving targets, then I'd use .22 LR, too.
I'm not saying that there's a big difference between the calibers, but since I'm limited to 10 rounds anyway (being in California), .40 S&W has some advantages, and I can shoot it just fine, then I figured why not?
Nice prose, and if I felt that I could consistently execute a perfect Mozambique Drill on potentially moving targets, then I'd use .22 LR, too.
remember that the +P and +P+ rates aren't an indicator of speed, but of pressure
you won't find any +P rounds in .40, because the round is already loaded to those pressures...remember that the .40 is a compressed lightly loaded 10mm
Actually, it runs at the same maximum pressure as standard 9mm. As for why there is no official definition for +P, it might be because of a limiting factor of some sort (e.g. a weakness in the design of the brass), or that it was rushed to market before +P was defined and there hasn't been a demand for it--something like that. .40 S&W still has additional potential at standard pressure that a few companies have been able to exploit, and at least one has produced unofficial "+P" loadings at higher pressure.
otomik
Member
RA9TA, Winchester Ranger 127gr. SXT +P+ is good stuff. especially if you have a friend in law enforcement to help you get it at a reasonable price.
i think you're mistaken. .40 actually has a lower max pressure than 10mm. the reason you won't find +P ammo for .40 is there is no SAAMI specification for it and I don't think there will be soon because the .40 cartridge case is not as beefy as the 10mm case.9mmepiphany said:
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