dashootist
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What about a full-auto M16?
Practice for a Charging Bear
- Thread starter Deaf Smith
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DoubleTapDrew
Member
This shows how much time you have to react: not much! (fast forward to the 2:00 mark to skip the boring intro)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Serious or kidding?
If serious: The round does o.k. on humans, mostly, (and debatably) but is generally considered to be woefully insufficient for use on 'most any large game animal. It isn't going to do a whole lot of damage to the important parts of a bear, unless you manage to make an extremely good shot.
Full-auto fire is not a panacea that makes up for shot placement, and takes a lot of practice to do effectively. You could put a lot of rounds into the animal, if you're skilled and disciplined, but you need to put them in a very specific spot -- where one large, heavy bullet would do more good.
A transferable M-16 is going to cost you something above $15,000 (plus the tax stamp paperwork and fee), the receiver will be at least 24 years old with probably a lot of rounds through it, and comes with strings attached. Is this really the weapon an average civilian sportsman would take to the back-country?
Having said all that... if I had to defend myself against an attacking bear with a .223, I suppose full-auto would be a plus.
Cosmoline
Member
Truly. The below video was taken by me on Sunday. Just black yearlings and a protective sow, but the big brown ones dart in and out of cover the same way. Since these were not enough of a threat to shoot, it was a good opportunity to get some video of how they move. (Though towards the end I was starting to wonder!)
You can see how minimal the yearling's exposure to any fire was. Mostly I just heard him charging (mic doesn't pic up the crashing branches--just me yelling as he's charging closer), then saw him very briefly before he veered off. If that had been a brown bear sow she could have been on me in about two seconds when I rounded that corner, or could have gone off to my right then back around behind me very easily, giving me almost no opportunity to shoot either way. When they're in that alder and devil's club you can forget getting a shot with lead or bear spray. When I've seen the brown ones they've been little more than flashes before they tuck back into the thickets. It's very different from what you see on movies or even in nature shows, where all you see are the edited highlights of the bears in the open. Mostly you *DON'T* see the bears. You have to rely on your ears.
I think this also highlights the question of standing your ground is when charged. Even with a mere black bear sow and two yearlings, there was no way I was standing put at the corner you see ahead on the video, where I first ran into them. They all came at me, and of course I ran backwards back up the trail. Standing there I could have gotten a swat from her, and would have deserved it. That fat yearling wanted to bite my ankle too, he was full of fire. Apparently they'd been chased around by some off-leash dogs and were PO'd. I of course ended up as the target of the anger, as usual.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYenxZOkW2M
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valorius
member
The president would just rationally reason with it.
I however would shoot my companion in the foot, and run.
Sam there are probably a few rounds for the 5.56mm that could do the job on a bear, but they're waaaaaay down on the list of what i'd pick, and they would likely not cause death any time soon....IOW, you'd still probably get mauled.
M882, in particular, should blow clean through a bear. But is that stuff even obtainable for civilians?
The only other round i can think of is a Barnes solid copper slug driven to the highest possible velocity.
That is a SCARY video, and take note that the professional hunter missed. There is no way he was getting off more than 1 more shot either, had it not reversed course.
Very scary.
I however would shoot my companion in the foot, and run.
Sam there are probably a few rounds for the 5.56mm that could do the job on a bear, but they're waaaaaay down on the list of what i'd pick, and they would likely not cause death any time soon....IOW, you'd still probably get mauled.
M882, in particular, should blow clean through a bear. But is that stuff even obtainable for civilians?
The only other round i can think of is a Barnes solid copper slug driven to the highest possible velocity.
That is a SCARY video, and take note that the professional hunter missed. There is no way he was getting off more than 1 more shot either, had it not reversed course.
Very scary.
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Wolfeye
Member
A full-auto M16? Well, when I was a teen I asked my dad about using .223 for deer hunting. He tried once. Big buck, quartering towards him. With 1st shot, there was no visible difference in the deer's behavior or apparent health. It didn't react until the 3rd shot. When he started cleaning it, he found that all 3 shots were good.
I'd want a caliber that does the job in 1 hit, a 220-gr .30-06 at the very least.
I'd want a caliber that does the job in 1 hit, a 220-gr .30-06 at the very least.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
As much as I hate to rehash tired tales supported only by anecdotes, I did watch my uncle kill a deer with a Mini-14 once. He fired five times. The deer was walking towards him down a trail. At each shot the deer stopped ... and then walked closer. At the fifth shot it finally staggered, fell, and eventually expired.
When we dressed it, there were 5 hits in the boiler room.
Doesn't prove anything, but it encourages me to look elsewhere for hunting rounds ... and WAY up for a dangerous game round, no matter how fast you might send 'em.
When we dressed it, there were 5 hits in the boiler room.
Doesn't prove anything, but it encourages me to look elsewhere for hunting rounds ... and WAY up for a dangerous game round, no matter how fast you might send 'em.
Generally speaking, with the common 5.56x45mm loads you'd be well short on penetration, especially with the tough hide on those beasts. I don't know whether there are any loads that would be effective on a bear. Believe it or not, I think you'd stand a better chance with a .40 S&W or .45 ACP pistol shooting hard-cast bullets because they'll penetrate a lot better, at least. You could say that the M16 is far more specialized for human-sized targets or smaller.
Sport45
Member
Cougar17171 said:
You forgot all the flashes and sparks as bullets hit dirt, trees, and the bear!
oldfool
Member
the way I see it, ol' Grizz has his place in this world, and I have my place in this world, but my place ain't in his space
(pretty much the opposite for ol' rattler, but ol' rattler is easier outgunned than 'ol Grizz is outrunned)
but... for practice snap shooting with any shotgun, must not be many sporting clays guys here in the revolver forum
cause that "running rabbit" stage is a wicked quick bouncer, even though it's a crossing shot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtX1fhhaA7U
starting about 3 1/2 minutes in, though the setup shown is just a little bit too flat for real good hops
(pretty much the opposite for ol' rattler, but ol' rattler is easier outgunned than 'ol Grizz is outrunned)
but... for practice snap shooting with any shotgun, must not be many sporting clays guys here in the revolver forum
cause that "running rabbit" stage is a wicked quick bouncer, even though it's a crossing shot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtX1fhhaA7U
starting about 3 1/2 minutes in, though the setup shown is just a little bit too flat for real good hops
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