Prairie Dog Gun (part 2)

[Aaryq]

Howdy folks,
I gave you some crappy criteria for a prairie dog gun in my old thread asking about .22WMR and .17HMR...I found a dog town that my mother's friend has on her land and that's my new vacation home. It's got a tower on it for shooting but we didn't get to use it much because aside from 3 or 4 dogs most of them were at at least 200 yards.

Now this means that I will need a centerfire rifle that I can shoot a prairie dog at 400 yards max. I'm not a reloader and PLEASE for the love of Pete don't suggest reloading. Because I'm in the military, I'll be hitting the dog town maybe 1 to 2 times a year. I'd prefer not an OVERLY excessively expensive round but since it's going to be so rarely used, I guess I could stock up during the off season...

I really want a semi-auto non-AR platform, but Bolt Action will do as long as I can still spend a bunch of time on uprgading it to something unique and functional.
So here's the criteria:
Minute of Prairie Dog Accuracy at 400 yards
Good Factory Loads (non-reloader)
Plentiful availibility of aftermarket parts

*bonus criteria* If you can fit all of this in, I'd like to use it for White Tail Deer
What do you say THR?

 

[csmkersh]

In non-AR platforms, I really can't think of any one currently made. You could look for an old Remington 740 style semi. Mines close to 50 years old and in .30-06.

Now in bolts, you'd have a number of choices on rifles, but fancy stocks would be a different story for most. Caliber choices could run from .223, .243, .257 Roberts or .308/7.62 caliber. Cost wise you could start with a Savage at the low end, one of the CZs, or even a Weatherby MOA.

Out about 200, the .223 or .243 should work for dogs, and the 7.62s to 0 to 400 plus. All can be had in readily available factory loads.
​

 

[Tarvis]

223 and 22-250 can be loaded (at the factory ) with heavier bullets suitable for deer, but I have no idea on the factory offerings. My PD gun is a savage 12 LRPV in 22-250 with a Leupold VX-III 6.5-20x50 with target knobs. Some people will suggest larger cartridges like the 243 and 25-06 for varmints, but unless you have no other bills and nothing else to spend money on, you will go broke shooting dogs with factory loaded 243, 25-06, 257 roberts, 6mm rem, pretty much anything that can't be purchased as surplus.

As far as what platform you want, I don't know what you have in mind besides an AR for a PD gun. You could put some money into a mini 14, or even get a target mini, but that seems like an expensive way to go without having as good of results to me. I suggest a Remington 700 SPS Tactical in .223 if you go the bolt route. Savage makes a good/different rifle, but the accutrigger gets clogged with fouling after 500-600 rounds and starts to act funny, as well as the bolt getting sticky without a squirt of lube halfway through a day of shooting.

Back to ammo:
There may be a few cartridges that can be had for cheap, but you'll be best at sticking with .223 imho. 22-250 stands out over .223 when you get out beyond 250-300 yards, but if you won't/can't shoot further than 200 .223 should be a winner. That being said, I have no idea how much you can afford, but I shot around 900 rounds in 2 full days of shooting and I really didn't hit it all that hard.

 

[Shawnee]

.243 Wincheser or 6mm Remington.

Forget the semi-auto.

 

[bl4ckd0g]

Agreed, semi-auto outside of the AR is a lost cause. I don't know where you hunt, but the 6mm or 6.5mm based cartridges might be a good bet if you're constantly battling the wind.

If you absolutely must have a non-AR repeater, you might look at selling a kidney and getting a DSA FAL in .243 or .260. Keep in mind that the cost of this rifle alone can get you a quality bolt gun and decent glass.

 

[Tarvis]

I suppose you could get a saiga, but that rifle really wasn't designed for shooting small furry creatures from a long distance. Possibly a 556 or maybe an AUG clone or something, but I think you're going to have better luck with a bolt gun.

 

[LB7_Driver]

There is no semi-auto, non-AR platform that I would consider to be accurate enough for PD shooting.

In my experience, the 223 is good to go on PDs out to 400 yards. It runs out of steam out that far; air-time isn't very possible, but still kills 'em.

The 223 round is very common, and you can get factory ammo loaded with good varmint bullets.

The most accurate semi-auto platform is the AR. There are no real substitutes, so you'll just have to suck it up. A one-MOA AR is easy and very common. You want an AR that shoots better than one MOA? Not a problem!
Any other semi-auto will be a rare "shooter" if it'll do 2 or 3 MOA.

You'll also need optics. Again, this is easy for an AR.

So here's the criteria:
Minute of Prairie Dog Accuracy at 400 yards
Good Factory Loads (non-reloader)
Plentiful availibility of aftermarket parts​

These criteria point directly at an AR in 223.

If your state permits whitetail hunting with the 223 (many do, many don't), then you're good to go. If not, then you can buy an upper in another caliber. Oly Arms sells an AR-15 upper in 243 WSSM that will get you into big game hunting and PDs out to about as far as you care to shoot.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

The ONLY caliber that meets that criteria (minute of prairie dog at 400 yards with FACTORY ammo) is something in .308 winchester. Grab a quality turnbolt Savage, Howa, Tikka, or CZ (or better platform if you can afford it - Remington, FN, Browning, etc.) in a "sniper/varmint/tactical/precision" rifle configuration, a good mount, ring and scope, match ammo, and you're off to the races.

.223 at 400? Idonthinso..... Can be done but it's HARD/expensive to do. .308 at that range is much easier/cheaper to do. The wind is arse-raping most .223 bullets between 300 and 400.

Forget semi-auto. Forget poodle shooters. .308 will meet your criteria, AND be a great deer gun round as well.

 

[Shawnee]

"The ONLY caliber that meets that criteria (minute of prairie dog at 400 yds with FACTORY ammo) is something in .308 winchester."


NOT !

 

[csmkersh]

I have to agree with Shawnee. My Remington .22-250, my Tikka .25-06, either my Win M70 .270 or my Rem 700 BDL also in .270 can do the deed. But so would my Savage 110FB Tactical in .308. My Remy 300 RUM would do it too - for about 10 rounds than I'm through for the day.
​

 

[redneck2]

Dude....I'm going a a PD hunt sometime this summer, hopefully in July. My main gun will be a Bushmaster AR with a 6.5x20x44 Leupold. AFAIK, this is the only rifle that will fit your criteria (other than the "no AR" part). I don't believe there's any other semi-auto that has the accuracy.

Anything in a caliber other than .223 will break your pocketbook. Forget the .22-250 (which I'm taking) or .243, etc. unless you hand load. Do you really want to pay $1 per shot?

 

[Wildfire]

.223

Hey there:
I've done a fair amount of P-Dog shooting. All has been with a .223 bolt gun.
726 yards was my best shot.
The scope is the big factor here, Must be one with good target turrets and you must learn them and use them.
Anything over the 22-250 is way over kill and will only result in heavier recoil and less shooting.
Most of the quality bolt guns out there will do it. You may hav eto play around with the diffferent ammos to see what it likes best but, should find a decent round.
I do not understand the guys that say the .223 is only good to 200 or 300 yards. That simply is not the case. Never was. The .243 can work but again recoil will wear on you after a while. The 22-250 is hotter but again, unless you have other needs may be on the over kill side. They do work well.
Most are very accurate.
IMO. The .223 is perfect and will take coyotees also.
An atuo is going to be very hard to come up with other then the AR.
Some of the AR's can be very accurate.

 

[skinewmexico]

I would get a Savage Model 12 Low Profile, in 223, with a 1- 7 twist barrel. I would shoot factory Black Hills ammo loaded with 77g SMKs, or 75g match. Working great for me to 600 yards in F-Class. Or you could get any number of 223s with a 1-9 twist, and shoot all kinds of factory ammo. Going to have to have reasonably good glass, with fine crosshairs.

 

[redneck2]

I've done a fair amount of P-Dog shooting. All has been with a .223 bolt gun. 726 yards was my best shot.

I have a good friend that has gone on a number of hunts. Before the wind comes up in the morning, the gets kills up to 200 yards with a .22 LR. Now, is it 100%? No. That's part of the fun.

 

[Art Eatman]

If you can settle for a reliable 300 yards, the .223 works fine. At 400 yards, you'll do a lot of, "I just KNOW I can shoot better than that!"

I use a Ruger 77 Mk II with a Timney trigger. Old Leupold Vari-X II 3x9x40.

I finally found something I really like about my GMC pickemup*: The tilting steering wheel. Tilt it up, and turn to a lock position. Pad the edge of the window and adjust the height as needed. Excellent shooting platform!!! Just work an area and then drive on across the pasture. Hard to beat a deal like that!

* Beside the CD player.

 

[cpttango30]

Well the best semi-auto varmint rifles are the are the AR platform. The Rock River Arms Predator rifle just got top honors in my Predator Extreme AR shoot off. It was up against the Remington R-15 and a Smith M&P-15.

the 223 is going to get the job done out to 400 yrds on Pdogs.

You want to hunt deer as well. That removed most of the 22 caliber offerings unless your state allows the use of 22 CF on deer. That will bump you up to at least a 243, 6mmRem, 6ppc, 6mmBR. the last two are out because they are really a handload rounds.

You say you don't want an AR. But an ar in 243 would offer you the best of both worlds. With light 58gr loads sporting V-Max bullets for varmints and 80 and 100 gr loads for deer in premium hunting bullets.

If you want a bolt action a Savage Model 12 Varmint Low Pro is offered in a 243 win. Remington also has some in there as well but I would not recammend the new remington to anyone quality is crap price is high. Plus you can get and change barrels on the savage very easy with a go, no-go gauge set and a barrel nut wrench. As long as you have another cartridge with the same diameter base as the 243 you can change calibers.

For optics I would go with nothing less than a 6-18x40mm and I would presonaly go with a 6-24x40mm or 8-32x40mm

 

[Whitman31]

204 Ruger, any platform...

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

"The ONLY caliber that meets that criteria (minute of prairie dog at 400 yds with FACTORY ammo) is something in .308 winchester."


NOT!

I'm sorry but I believe you are incorrect and what I said was right. He said with FACTORY ammo. There are many many calibers that would do this reliably with handloads, but only the .308 will have both the match ammo, AND the BCs to buck the wind enough to make reliable hits at 400 yards. Sure you could make a hit every now and then with a .223 rem, but you're gonna waste a lot of ammo for every hit you make. Very very very different answer due to the factory-ammo-only component, and the distance. At 300 yards, I'd agree the .223 would work pretty well.

If you can settle for a reliable 300 yards, the .223 works fine. At 400 yards, you'll do a lot of, "I just KNOW I can shoot better than that!"

Yep, +1. The OP needs good advice not errornet "wisdom". 400 yards is a very very long distance, and a p-dog is a very small target. You have to try to minimize your error in doping the wind, but a low BC bullet exacerbates your doping error. If he's only going out a couple times a year, that's not enough wind-doping practice to fool around with crappy BC tiny little .224 bullets that are bleeding massive energy past 200 yards and drifting like a madman as they slow down. A .308 is much more of a point n click proposition for the occasional long-distance p-dogger.

 

[RancidSumo]

22-250. Mabey in a Savage.

 

[RancidSumo]

I'm sorry but you are incorrect and what I said was right. Interesting that you have no argument to back up your claim. I do. He said with FACTORY ammo. There are many many calibers that would do this reliably with handloads, but only the .308 will have both the match ammo, AND the BCs to buck the wind enough to make reliable hits at 400 yards. Sure you could make a hit every now and then with a .223 rem, but you're gonna waste a lot of ammo for every hit you make. Very very very different answer due to the factory-ammo-only component, and the distance. At 300 yards, I'd agree the .223 would work pretty well.

There is ZERO proof in what you just wrote. It is nothing but a bunch of nonesense. I personally know a lot of people who shoot prarie dogs at 400yds with a 22-250. Saying that "Only a .308 can shoot accuratly at 400yds with factory ammo" is like saying that only a Glock is reliable and everything else is junk. All that post did was make you look like an idiot.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

It is nothing but a bunch of nonesense. I personally know a lot of people who shoot prarie dogs at 400yds with a 22-250.

Funny how you didn't claim "with factory ammo". I am right. You are wrong. Deal with it. And your last comment violates the forum rules, and you should eliminate it as a result.

There is ZERO proof in what you just wrote.

You don't consider a wise old sage with decades of experience like Mr. Eatman backing me up some proof?

I'll repeat the quote for you:

If you can settle for a reliable 300 yards, the .223 works fine. At 400 yards, you'll do a lot of, "I just KNOW I can shoot better than that!"

We're talking about high percentage hits here. Not spending all day missing with a hit or two every now and then. Getting factory .22-250 to shoot well enough to hit regularly at that distance WITH FACTORY AMMO (as per the original requirement) is a crap shoot at best, and a pipe dream at worst.

 

[RancidSumo]

With factory ammo since none of them reload. Sorry that I didn't see the need to point it out in my first post since it seemed painfully obvious. After all, we have been talking about factory ammo this entire time. I think you need to pull your head out of your ass and realize that on this issue, your are clearly wrong.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Uh-huh. Let's see these "friends" of yours who do this - show some proof. What rifles? What brand/type of factory ammo? You have no proof, so you are way off base in questioning superior experience to yours. Oh my, the crap that propogates across the intarweb... I don't think half of these people who make wild claims have the first clue how far one thousand two hundred feet is.

 

[Barr]

Let's tone it down a little bit before this thread gets locked.

Back to topic...

I would recommend a .243 in a bolt rifle. Savage makes an exceptional rifle for a good price. You might even consider a 6.8 SPC in an AR platform.

 

[RancidSumo]

Ok, I'll ask them tommorow what rifles they are using. Speaking of proof, where is yours? AND, I believe Art was speaking of a .223, not a 22-250 or any other caliber.