Pre '64 winchester!!!

[JSNAPS]

Ok so I was set on a 300 win mag (or 338) when suddenly in my local gun shop I spied a Model 70 1947 excellent condition 30-06! Now I have never owned one but have heard it being the top bolt guns of all time. (Jack O'Conner and co.) The man at the counter wants 1300 and wont back down. Now he is a good man but is only selling it from a friend who wants that much for it. He wants to attract people aside from just his regular company I suppose. Anyway doing research and looking at the interwebs I see people with a LOT of them. I hear of a bug of once you buy one you want them all. Considering this will be the only bolt gun for quite a while is this a good deal? I am not looking to collect them and have them be a safe queen (my guns work for their spot ) is this a good deal? Thanks
-jsnaps

 

[CB900F]

JSNAPS;

I love the pre-64 model 70 and I won't tell you that's a good deal unless it's damn near in new-in-box condition with original papers, etc.. Good to very good guns can be had for hundreds of dollars less IMHO.

900F

 

[jmr40]

Waaaay too much. Pre-64's made after WW-2 in common calibers have no real collector value. Some have a lot of sentimental value to their owners. I'd say this is a shooter rifle. It would be a good hunting rifle as is or to be used as the basis for a custom.

Up until Winchester started producing quality rifles again any pre-64 got a bit of a premium because it was the only real choice for a quality American made CRF rifle. For around $700 or so you can buy a brand new Winchester that will be far better made.

Some guys are trying to push the pre-64 thing to sell rifles for a lot more than they are worth in todays market to unsuspecting buyers. Others simply don't realize the market has changed.

 

[JSNAPS]

Thanks I thought that was a bit too much considering my humble 336 is my main hunting rifle. I wanted something with a bit more oomph. So these new Winchesters or FN should I say . How do they rate as opposed to the pre 64? Im in a bolt market (again) and am flooded with so many options. Heck Im even thinking about a custom action, stock ad barrel. I have built rifles in the past and this might be a project. I can see it now BAT HR action....Jewell trigger, Mcmillan stock and krieger barrel. wow that would be some combo!

 

[supercalvin56]

Pre-64 Model 70s are much better guns than the new models....don't let anyone tell you differently.

 

[30Cal]

$1300 is too much for what you were looking at. By quite a lot. I don't think you'd have to look especially hard to find a nice one for under $800.

 

[GTS Dean]

SC56 - My personal experience is that they shoot the same. Quality of construction? Pre'64 all day long.

 

[Gordon]

For $1300 you should get 85+% NRA gradeing which means only minor bumps and scrapes and blue wear on muzzle and edges. The stock should have the factory inletted steel widow's peak butt plate (otherwise subtract $300 at least) and the rear sight and front sight with hood (subtract $100 for missing or replaced rear sight and $50 for front hood or another $300 for missing front sight as it is integral) . If the varnish has been refinished deduct anywhere from $50 for a touch up job to $400 for sanding off the checkering and glossing it up.$300 off for receiver side drilled with holes unless a Paul Jaeger mount is included ! Bore should be excellent as should all mechanicals.
A good shooter of that year would be around $700 for a "normal" length cut and padded stock and maybe refinished stock with 70% original blue. Refinished blue (remember this model has a matte finish reciever which is the dead give away) and or holes in reciever side or overall wear we are down to $600 for a shooter grade.
That year is a "transitional" and probably has a 2 position safety instead of the later and better 3 position. It may have the pre war cloverleaf rear tang, check that area for cracks in the wood which heavy use might bring-sometimes. It DOES have the desireable one piece forged bolt with the solid bolt knob. The 30-06 is the most common but G-d's own caliber.

 

[TFC2100]

I recently bought a pre-war (1941) model 70 with an interesting addition to the buttstock. The cheek piece was raised by installing a rather elaborately cut insert. The v notch cut into the stock matches the contour of the v notch on the Winchester butt plate. Has anyone seen this before? Was it done at the factory? Or is it a Frankenstein project? If it is an after market add-on, then should I buy a new stock? If so, where can I find a pre war stock got a model 70?

 

[sage5907]

TFC2100, go to eBay and type in Winchester 70 pre 64 stock. An early clover leaf tang stock comes up every few weeks so you'll have to keep watching until you find what you want. You'll probably have to pay between $200 and $400 depending on the quality of the stock. Ask to make sure the stock doesn't have any cracks, no glass bedding and the barrel channel is original. BW

 

[joed]

I'm with jmr40 on this, that's too high. But then I could care less about a pre 64 myself.

Supercalvin56,
I have a much higher opinion of the newer guns then you do. Better steel and some improvements plus I believe the new can be had with controlled round feed for those that want it.

 

[HOOfan_1]

I believe the new can be had with controlled round feed for those that want it.

That is the only way they come now. I can't imagine paying $1300...or even $700 for a 50 year old rifle, just to take it out hunting, when I can buy a brand new one that is just as good for less money.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Pre-64 Model 70s are much better guns than the new models....don't let anyone tell you differently.

I hate to have to say this...but that is BS.

I have 2 new M70's...actually one is mine and the other is my sons...but I sighted them both in.

They shoot exactly the same, well within the 1 MOA Winchester promises and to the same POI...for example.

Both are sighted in with Winchester 180 grain Power Max Bonded ammo...but with Remington 180 CoreLokt ammo, they both shoot 1 inch left. The chrono results for both guns is the same...I've never seen 2 barrels shoot so close to the same.

The serial numbers are close, but there is a considerable difference...meaning they were not built on the same run....that says something about hammer forged barrels.

Here is mine...the other is just like it.


I have a pre-64 M70...its a 458 Win Mag...very nice rifle, but its no better or worse than the new ones.

 

[dogrunner]

I own one of those transition Winchesters......five digit serial # and easily the most accurate factory rifle I have ever fired outside of the match grade M/14's I competed with while in the Army.

My rifle was mfg'd in 1948, has the standard tang, not the clover leaf pattern. Front sight ramp is milled from the bbl, rear is the stock raised collar with the then standard buck horn rear. Picked it up from a friend used in '63 when I was enroute to AK. and killed a lot of game with it........to this day it will still touch rounds togeather at a hundred with the right load. Can't comment on the newer versions other than to say they look good, still I really never found any reason to change it out and I'll have it till I leave this world.......great design, great trigger..........class act all around.

$1300? Dunno, depends on the model and the condition.....still, you WILL NOT find that sort of quality and fitting today.

 

[jhnrckr]

if you are willing to spend $1300 you should look beyond Winchester 70's. You are in custom rifle price range. You dont know how well that gun will group and a $300 walmart gun might shoot tighter.

 

[PapaG]

I've been shooting a 1952 model 70 in 30-06 for 34 years now, mostly with cast bullets but also with various jacketed loads. I love the action and the metalwork but see the stock as chunky and not all that esthetically pleasing. A few years back I picked up a newer push feed M70 in 30-06 and decided to test them both against each other..having a nice stock of "proven" reloads. I'd take both guns and a box of shells...shoot a five shot group with one, then the other. Repeat. What I discovered was that there was virtually no difference between the two in group size. Never had a round hang up with the pusher either.
I figure mine right now is worth around 800.....four times what it was worth when I bought it.

 

[rajb123]

I have a m70 control round feeder made in 1994.... it is extremely well made gun with great wood.

The older pre-64 guns may shoot tighter groups ...not sure,,,,, mine is about average in grouping, however.

 

[Fishbed77]

Pre-64 Model 70s are much better guns than the new models....don't let anyone tell you differently.

Are they better than the new Winchesters that are manufactured by FN in South Carolina?

I've heard those are great guns.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

From www.gunsamerica.com:

Winchester model 70 Pre-64 .30 06
914308494
Winchester Rifles - Modern Bolt/Auto/Single > Model 70 > Pre-64

Winchester Model 70 Pre-64 .30 06 serial # 132948 Very good shape. Muzzle break.A gun collector told me that the muzzle break looks to be the original or time correct.No rust on ... (read more)

Seller: tjwstang $650.00

 

[Guillermo]

even for one of the good old guns, the pre-64s, that is giraffe orifice high.

And BTW, just ignore the folks that say that the early guns are not better. Less competition for the classics.

 

[BrocLuno]

OK, I'm not a Winchester nut, I have a few and have sold a few. They are obviously an all American classic, but what else?

All pre 64 M70's were hand fitted. That was the allure. It was also the problem. Tooling allowed tolerances to creep from build to build, run to run. Yeah, they did get it mostly right, but it ain't the perfect rifle - just a very nice one.

For $1300 you can buy a LOT of modern rifle. You are just $200 shy of a new Sako Classic, and that is a hell of a rifle. Plus, modern Winchester model 70's are very well made, tight tolerance controls, VERY FEW reported problems and great shooters.

For a few hundred more, you could get this Safari Grade Browning for pete's sake: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=268132937 And that would be an investment and a shooter.

I'd smile and pass on that one. There are gun shops in Montana and Wyoming that have dozens of Model 70's in the rack. For the difference in price, you could fly out and buy one and have a nice weekend too

 

[mustang 22]

We have both in the family, I have a 1953 M 70 in 30 06 and my son has a SC mfg by FN in the same caliber. We have had them to the range together a number of times. Even though I like the looks of the pre 64 better, I have to admit it don't shoot no better.

 

[bushmaster1313]

For $1300 you can get a new Kimber 84M plus a Leupold scope.

You should also think whether you want the rather large and heavy early 30-06 Standard Model 70, or a Featherweight.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I do believe that any muzzle brake on a pre-64 model 70 would be aftermarket. It would also lower the collector interest and therefore the price.

900F

 

[joed]

People make such a big deal about the controlled round feed. How many other mfgs offer CRF? There is nothing wrong with push feed.