Pre-WWII German Shotgun

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crslght

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Trying to identify this shotgun. Any suggestions on how to do so would be appreciated. No serial number or manufacturer name stamped on the barrels. Says Krupp Essen but that's just the German steel used for the barrels. Purchased at an estate auction where no details were available. It is a 12 guage and fires just fine. Bore is clean with a mirror finish. Engraving everywhere, including the screw heads.
 

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Dismount the barrels, look at the reciever and note what's written there.

Almost certainly this came to the US in a GI dufflebag. Thousands of shotguns came back from Europe around 1945, often of top quality if mysterious origins.

As with all old shotguns, a checkover by a smith is mandatory.

Almost certainly, this has 2 1/2" chambers and using our common ammo is straining things.

HTH....
 
Ditto all from Dave. German manufacturers often sold unfinished guns to others. Cooperatives or guilds in cities like Suhl collaborated on firearms. Positive i.d. is sometimes out of reach. Records are often nonexistent due to the war. What type locking system, chamber length likely 65mm or 2 9/16 inches and whether someone has already attempted to lengthen the chambers (and what remains) are genuine concerns and getting qualified eyes on this piece is a must!
 
Oneounceload - It isn't wise to assume. This shotgun to Cabela's and two other gunshops in an effort to identify it. The gun was checked by what I understood to be individuals with training and experience in evaluating such weapons. The report from all three was that the gun was safe to fire with light loads. So, no, I didn't just fire a round because the shell fit.
 
crslght said:
Oneounceload - It isn't wise to assume. This shotgun to Cabela's and two other gunshops in an effort to identify it. The gun was checked by what I understood to be individuals with training and experience in evaluating such weapons. The report from all three was that the gun was safe to fire with light loads. So, no, I didn't just fire a round because the shell fit.
Click to expand...
OK, what exactly is the chamber length?

If you don't know that for certain, it's not safe to fire with modern ammo.

Photos of the water table (the flat area on the receiver below the barrels) and the corresponding area of the barrels would be helpful.
 
Oneounceload - It isn't wise to assume. This shotgun to Cabela's and two other gunshops in an effort to identify it. The gun was checked by what I understood to be individuals with training and experience in evaluating such weapons. The report from all three was that the gun was safe to fire with light loads. So, no, I didn't just fire a round because the shell fit.
Click to expand...

Believeing a big box "gunsmith" can be dangerous.

Example - the local Gander here had a Sauer shotgun, a lot like the one you have. Tag says 2-3/4", I pull the forearm, stamped 65mm - 2-9/16 - told them they should change the tag and their "expert" proceeded to drop an AZOOM training round in the chamber and loudly proclaimed it was 2-3/4 because the AZOOM fit.

YOUR assuming could be dangerous - if it hasn't been mic'd, get it done to be sure and safe
 
Oneounceload:

Your point is valid and I would agree if I hadn't taken the shotgun to three differnt stores for evaluation, only one of which was what I'd considered a big box store.

Short of having the proper equipment to check it myself, which I don't, at some point one doesn't have much choice but to rely on the information provided by "experts" and "accept" it as being correct.

In any case, I appreciate your comments and will seek a fourth examination. Obviously the last thing anyone wants is to use a weapon in any unsafe manner.
 
What you can do is take a fired shell of the same gauge and see if i easily fits. If you were talking about a 2-1/2 going to 2/9-16 - that's one thing - but a 2-9/16 to 2-3/4 is 3/16" difference -
 
oneounceload no need to hi-jack the thread. The question isn't "is it safe to fire" he already sorted that out.
That steel is very thick and I would say would be able to withstand light loads with out a problem as long as bores are in good condition and so on. Also I am sure if the gun smiths were up to snuff at least one probably went over the chamber lengths with you. Id say you found a heck of a find And have to ask what ya paid (of course no need to answer). On another note it looks like something I may not take out in the field to often.
good find thanks for sharing. You could contact Turnbull restorations maybe they could help, they know shotguns.
 
lobo9er said:
oneounceload no need to hi-jack the thread. The question isn't "is it safe to fire" he already sorted that out.
Click to expand...

The OP thinks he has it sorted out. I'm not so sure. Lots of gun store clerks have no idea that 12 gauges ever came chambered in anything other than 2 3/4, 3 and 3 1/2 inches.

There is a decent chance that this gun has a shorter than 2 3/4 chamber. If it does, the shell is going to crowd the bore when it's fired, possibly resulting in unhealthy pressures. Just because it hasn't blown up yet doesn't mean that it's safe.

This gun should go to a real gunsmith, who will have a drop in chamber depth gauge. The question will be settled in seconds.
 
No need to be a jerk because a few folks stress safety over your cavalier attitude.

If the OP posts pics of the water table and barrel flats, perhaps we can help
 
 
jp sauer, guss stahl two other names that came up in a few searches Also adolf drillings was another. Looks like you may have a nice piece though, alot of the SxS of that era in the shape of yours carry a nice price tag.
 
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