Precision long-range shooting popularity surge?

[taliv]

seems to me, nearly everyone around here (my town, not THR) is buying bolt guns and optics and wanting to get into long-range and UKD shooting. I'd say there's a lot of recent interest on THR too, but I attribute that mostly to AR15-thread fatigue

So... what I'm wondering is, (and this question is particularly oriented towards people here who have recently purchased their first precision rifle) what sort of organized activities/events would you be interested in?

traditional NRA mid- and long-range "prone" and F-class?
informal long-range 'leagues' that run like the above but don't keep score or have equipment restrictions?
action shooting like long-range practical matches (e.g. Zak's Steel Safari)?
marksmanship/sniper challenge matches?
what else?

what do you like/dislike about these?

for instance, do you want to be on a timer, but only shoot from a comfy prone position? or do you want to shoot from trees, creek beds, stairwells and standing but not be rushed?

do you want to shoot large paper or steel targets? or eggs and tennis balls?

how many rounds would you want to shoot per match?

would you still come if it were rifleman format? (i.e. no sighters, no alibis)

what about team/individual? would you be willing to work with someone?

would you prefer competition or just hanging out?
etc.

I'm asking because I'd like to organize some stuff, but I get the feeling newer shooters like challenging targets, but would be put off by challenging positions (including having to carry their new rifles farther than 20' from truck to bench)

 

[Geno]

For me, the interest in long distance shooting has always been practical application. By that I mean that I was so accustomed to shooting clay pigeons and pop bottles at 500 yards, that when a deer presented at that distance, I was completely confident in my ability to hit the target first shot.

I hate having to walk down range 500 yards, then back to assess how accurately I am hitting. To that end, about 15 years ago, I started buying steel targets...ting! More trigger-time, less walking time. At present, shooting to 500 yards has become pretty lame. I am ready to shoot steel at distances beyond 500 yards, but lack the access to property where I can shoot those distances.

It is fun to go and shoot with others who share a similar interest, but I am really not interested in formal competition. I compete against myself...always have. I'm really not interested in something like F-class. I have multiple nicely-equipped rifles, lots of ammo. I enjoy sharing them hunters/shootists who don't have the equipment. It's rather my cheater's way to have other folks test my handloads in my rifles.

My interests:

1) get out-of-doors...
2) enjoy shooting sports, especially on steel targets...
3) enjoy fellowship with like-minded folks...
4) teach each other...there is a lot of unharvested knowledge amongst us all...
5) tell mega-lies about years-gone-by hunting experiences, and the one that got away. <pause>> oh wait...that's fihsing.
6) specifically, I'd like to start shooting steel at 600 to 1,000 yards, especially at unknown distances to enhance my ranging abilities.

Geno

 

[blackops]

I started this whole LR thing along with acquiring a rifle within the past 8 months. I started reloading, hit my first target at 500 meters dead center, watched the plate swing before I could here it, and that was all I needed. Eventually I would like to get into F-Class. I love competition and it always brings the best out of me. I wouldn't be out there just to shoot, I want to be out there with pressure and a trophy on the line. I think a competition forcing guys to utilize different shooting positions, ranges, and targets is right up my alley! Granted many guys out there are more accurate and have better equipment than myself, but that wouldn't stop me from putting forth everything I have at every competition.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I've been shooting LR for quite a while, I've never competed in a competition...but have had many "loser buys the beer" matches.

And at present I don't have a rifle in one piece...I'm in the process of replacing the barrels on both my 308's and my 300 WM. I've been putting that off for quite some time due to lack of finances...and I've gotten caught up in the original long range round...the 45-70. (In truth...I guess I got kinda bored with LR)

Competition might be fun, I don't know...but just hanging out shooting sounds like a blast to me. That is when I get my guns back together...

 

[MCMXI]

My take on this subject is that matches or competitions are good because they introduce stressors that aren't there during casual shooting or even serious load development. Competition is good because you have to make a shot or shots NOW and you have to make them within a time limit. Also, you have to make them during tough conditions. You can't wait 20 minutes for the rain to stop or the wind to stop blowing. This will make you a better shooter.

I would say that Zak's steel challenges are probably the ultimate type of competition for civilians interested in competitive long-range shooting because they are truly practical in nature. The big problem with these matches is having the real estate to run them. F-Class matches also serve a purpose in that the objective is precise/accurate multiple shots within a time limit. F-Class is highly structured with feedback from every shot so you will learn about wind, holdover, comeups, time management, reloading, equipment etc. What you won't learn is shooting in awkward positions. In a perfect world, I'd have one F-Class and one steel challenge match every month.

If I lived in NM I'd attend every single one of Zak's steel challenges just as I attend every single F-Class match here. I'm still hoping that Zak will eventually offer a 2, 3 or 4 day course culminating in a match. I'd definitely fly up for such an event.

 

[Zak Smith]

I am somewhat disqualified from the target audience of the question, but let me just weigh in a bit.

The match that got me really interested in long-range shooting was the ITRC. ( Zak's 2004 ITRC Report - THR ) A friend of mine had told me stories of it, the difficulty of the physical and shooting challenges, and I had to try it. Practical shooting appeals to me because of the variety and novelty of the challenges, the problem-solving aspect of it, the free-form solutions, the physical challenges, and the versatility required to be successful.

Around here, this kind of match has motivated quite a few shooters to get "into" shooting matches. Instead of chasing them away, the challenge has attracted them.

 

[Geno]

1858 said:

I'm still hoping that Zak will eventually offer a 2, 3 or 4 day course culminating in a match. I'd definitely fly up for such an event.

I'd sign up for that one too!

Geno

 

[Zak Smith]

That's a popular idea. Here's my perspective as a competitor and match director that works a full time job.

As a competitor, attending a major match usually involves at least a day total of travel and usually an extra day or two off work on either side besides that, assuming the match is held on a weekend. If you add in an extra 2, 3, or 4 days, that equals a lot more time off, round it up to a week or 8 days. If an average big match in the region requires me to take off two days provided we drive through the night coming back on Sunday, then we're talking 2x or 2.5x the amount of time-off taken.

As a match director, the same concern does apply, as do additional problems of scheduling. At the Steel Safari, which is held Friday through Sunday, four or five match staff spend Monday through Thursday preparing the field courses, setting the positions and props and logistical concerns, and shooting in the courses to make sure they're 100% solid, safe, and fair. So if there were a training class involved, it would have to somehow fit in that schedule and there isn't really time left. If we consider fairness, one pillar of field matches is that the competitors should have an equal and fair chance to "solve the problems" presented by stages. A training course that used the same stages prior to the match would get an unfair advantage in the match.

The Steel Safari shooting site is available during the year for practice shooting on last year's stages, up until a month before the match. Some of the best preparation possible is to meet up with some of the "regulars" - the Colorado LR shooting crew - who shoot down there and shoot for a weekend.

All that said, I really want to establish a school where we can teach the same kind of shooting we have in our matches. The catch is finding an appropriate venue, but is it not an insurmountable problem.

 

[ScratchnDent]

The Steel Safari matches look like a ton of fun to me, and very challenging.

What I would really love is a match just like that, except limited to maybe 600 yards and as-issued mil-surp rifles. I think that would draw a lot of people that can't otherwise afford to be competitive.

 

[Zak Smith]

The Alleghany Sniper Challenge this year is using "issued" rifles and ammunition.

 

[xphunter]

I prefer steel.
I like being under time.
I enjoy a roving field course
I don't mind reticle ranging.
Distances to just beyond a 1000-Yes!
Prefer shooting from the prone position.
They don't have to be big targets.
No wind flags.
Of course, I like the I.T.R.C. just North of Gillette, as it meets a lot of the criteria I listed.

 

[blackops]

I think many guys are out there just like me, looking for that civilian *sniper* competition. I like the SS because it seems to challenge you physically. Bringing the physical element into shooting births an entire different competition IMO.

 

[C-grunt]

I would love to shoot at these matches. But I cant because of work and family. maybe when my daughter is a bit older.

Personally I agree with 1858 in that one F-Class type match and then one practical type match on a fairly regular basis.

The F-Class type matches help build the proper shooting foundation and the practical matches would then elaborate on that with actual field type shooting.

 

[DeepSouth]

If I'm going to be precision shooting I want to shooting off a bench rest. Precision to me means seeing just how tight of a group I can get and the best conditions for that is a bench. I am more of an "old School" mentality I think. I don't do much bench rest shooting anymore, but up until a few years ago I did a lot.

 

[USSR]

I have been shooting 1,000 yard F Class for 8 years. While I enjoy it tremendously, I would like to some day shoot an UKD tactical match.

Don

 

[Zak Smith]

I have some friends who, to put it bluntly, shoot bad people as their job for the US Government. Some of them are professional snipers and some just land in that role from time to time. There is so much that goes into it other than just the shooting component. But they shoot with us because they think they can learn something from us about shooting and from the courses of fire we set up. I take this as a huge compliment!

To get to the point, I always hesitate to call any match I run a "sniper" match because it is impossible to incorporate those "fighting" aspects. Competitive practical shooting (long range, 3Gun, pistol) is very good at evolving the shooting-related parts.

 

[CraigC]

I would love to be able to do some long range shooting and buy or build a precision rifle just for the purpose. At present, the closest club that is still constructing its 600yd range is 2hrs away and I just can't justify buying a rifle for shooting once, maybe twice a month. While my own property is almost a mile deep, due to its contours and 90% of it being wooded, the furthest I can shoot at home is 200yds. So if I want a challenge, I shoot .22LR's at 200yds. Maybe someday......

 

[DIM]

let see, I have few bolt rifles, actually all my rifles are bolt action, but I'm not in the long range calibers by any means, I shoot .223, 270 and .308 my range limits me to 500 yards, so I feel comfortable to shoot of the bench and prone, but I never tried to shoot any farther, first were I hunt the longest shots are no more then 100 - 200 yards most of the shots within 100, and the closest range which will allow me to shoot 1K is by State College PA, that's like 2 - 3 hour drive... But they do competition shooting over there all the time, probably I need to visit them and try it out, on 500 yards I keep 3" groups so I think I'm not ready yet...

 

[Justin]

To answer the original question, I really, really like the format of the Sporting Rifle match held at The Whittington Center.

While the target distances are known, it's still a challenging match. The fact that it's held in a natural terrain venue makes it both more challenging and more interesting than shooting on a square range. Some positions may be uncomfortable. Some of them may force you to change your position in order to acquire the targets, each one necessitates that you must adapt yourself to the conditions provided.

I also think that some sort of time limit should be imposed. It shouldn't be anything incredibly short, but a time limit that would work out to 20-30 seconds allowed per shot should be plenty of time for most people to make their hits without dragging the whole thing out interminably.

F-Class holds zero interest for me. I much prefer ringing steel to punching paper.

 

[nastynatesfish]

Me and a few buddies do a shoot everyso often on fridays or saturdays in safford az. 200-800yrds at 6"X4" steel plates. 15 shots in 6 minutes with the looser getting tounge lashed and laughed at. Its all in good fun and a good time

 

[Bobarino]

I think the recent surge in interest has a lot to do with the availability of affordable rifles capable of long range precision right out of the box. Nowadays, for less than, oh say, $1,200, you can have a rig capable of ringing the 1,000 yard gong with relative ease. The availability of ballistic calculators like iSnipe and Shooter Lite for smart phones helps too.

I took the long range plunge simply because I wanted a new challenge. I had done just about every kind of shooting I could with my current collection of firearms and gained a decent amount of proficiency for a weekend warrior and wanted to do something I had never done before and wasn't sure if I could do it.

I have a lot of fun with it but wish i could find a range longer than 300 yards. Shooting golf balls at that distance is getting kind of boring.

Aside from trap shooting, I think it's the most fun and challenging type of shooting now.

Bobby

 

[MCMXI]

F-Class holds zero interest for me. I much prefer ringing steel to punching paper.

Well, you're lucky to have a choice aren't you. Many, many shooters on THR don't even have a range within 2 hours drive of their house let alone any form or organized shooting matches. I feel very lucky to have a good public range and two military ranges to shoot at on a regular basis. I also feel lucky to be a civilian member of a club with > 70% military membership that schedules regular matches. I'm friends with one of the guys who runs all of the military ranges in the state. Late last year he invited me to attend a 5-day USMC sniper course but my boss sent me to a useless conference that same week! Anyway, I've been talking with him about the idea of running a steel challenge match with > 50% military participation. He likes the idea, they have the space and it's "simply" a case of convincing the higher-ups that such a match would have some ROI while complying with all of their rigorous safety standards.

There has been a surge in interest in long-range shooting in the military too. One of the ranges I shoot at is being extended to 1000 yards for this very reason.



Zak, if you need volunteers to help run the next Steel Safari then let us know.

 

[taliv]

I appreciate the responses so far. Obviously, as mentioned a few times, venues can be a challenge, but let's overlook that detail for the moment.

What is it about this type of shooting that got you interested, and what aspects will keep you interested? or, what is it about local events that causes you to not participate?

 

[sscoyote]

What got me started in longer range shooting was hunting, especially coyotes. I was doing a series of articles on Bruce Arus and Kreg Slack attempting to shoot a prairie dog at beyond a mile for PS mag., and went out one day with Bruce when he was testing a customers gun at 600 yds. I brought my 6 AI just for the heckuvit, and after the guys were done shooting he said go ahead and shoot a couple rounds. It was a blustery day and i aimed at the upper corner of a ~ 4 x8' tgt. When we got downrange all 3 of my shots were 3" cloverleafed. Honestly we all just stared in amazement. On the way back home I started thinking about rifles, turrets, reticles, laser rangefinders and long-range coyotes and haven't quit yet. It started me down aroad that's literally changed my life. That was ~10 years ago now, and man what a ride it's been.

I'm with XP and would like to see UKD targets in a roving field course, with AT LEAST 2 or 3 tgts. that must be reticle-ranged (I believe in learning everything u can from your optic). Here we...were...at the '04 ITRC when we proudly placed ~50% amongst all those rifle boys.--

 

[Ignition Override]

Well, maybe they will stick with civilian types and won't sporterize or permanently alter any decent milsurp rifles.

This kills most of the value on those.