practical precision rifle shooting props and barricades

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

taliv

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 23, 2004
Messages
28,765
normally people tend to think of precision rifle shooting as prone with bipod or benchrest style, along with traditional 3 position CMP/HP or olympic style. but for more practical shooting, how many of you take advantage of whatever support happens to be around you?

have you fired precision rifles out windows, off walls, or 3gun style barricades, or roof tops, etc?

for purposes of this discussion, we'll consider "precision rifle shooting" as targets not larger than 2-3 MOA

if you practice shooting, do you practice on barricades or props?

here are some videos a couple friends of mine did for some match stages, but they demonstrate the sort of props i have in mind.

the one is mostly shooting out of windows of various heights and then a rooftop... i think the target is 10-12" at 500 yards iirc. (though when we shot off that roof in one match, we shot at a mover)

the other involves shooting off a tire, which provides some support but the challenge is that it is a little wiggly.

then shooting off a wooden spool, where top is curved which is challenging because usually people try to get front (bipod) and rear (bag or butt) support and this is the opposite with middle support but nothing on the front or rear.

then shooting off a low wall (and you can see hte other ports in that barricade that could be used for many challenging positions where the front of the rifle is supported but you have to hold the rear of the gun stable at several different elevations. it could also mean canting the rifle so you can get the stock/barrel through the hole AND still see through the scope

then the last two barricades you can see but that shannon doesn't shoot from in the video involve a rooftop (where you tend to slide down so you not only have to hold the rifle still but hold yourself up) and shooting off a car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sac5JW2aCAc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZSrWji-nQE



if you were going to shoot these stages, what strategies would you use?

what would you change about your rifle? (fold bipod up? put a bag under the bipod? remove lights/lasers? sling? use shorter or longer magazine? what scope power would you run it on?
 
It looked like he used the rear of the folded bi-pod or the front of the mag as a ‘stop’.

You talked a little about shooting through a barricade w/ rifle canted. I’ve shot like that at short range w/ an AR, but never at any extended range. How do you handle that? That’s got to be really screwy once you get past 100yds or so!

On a side note, my cousin used a pickup bed as a support once and didn’t consider the line of sight vs line of the bore. It was his mother’s truck too.
 
I shoot out of tower blinds quiet often. It is good to dial in your rig and decide what is really necessary to hang off your quad rails and what is unnecessary flash
 
mtn, yeah, i shoot like that as well. it's one of the reasons i like the surgeon DBM over the badger DBM, because the surgeon has the rim around it that lets you ram it into a frame or barricade like that, where that hits the magazine on most other DBMs.

dbmb.jpg

yeah, shooting canted is a challenge. you have to take into account your sight height over bore and know how far your bullet actually drops due to gravity as opposed to relative to your zero. some calculators allow you to compensate for it. in jbm for example, you turn off "target relative drop" which they describe as "Calculates the bullet drop relative to the target and not the line of sight. These values are only different when the cant angle is non-zero. "
 
Bipod and support issues are perhaps for me under the nomination "depends". My main long guns actually don't have any bipods and I have to shoot using whatever rest I can. I keep them KISS - no lights, no lasers, just the scope, sling, magazine and suppressor on the bolt gun, that one being an 10 pound 300 WM. Magazine length, again, depends on the positions, as long as it does not get in the way and allows for low positions, go for whatever is convenient. My bolt gun has 4+1 capacity anyway, so the magazine is on the smallish side. M14 does have the 20 rnd box, but that's about as large as I'd go on that rifle.

I've shot at 600 m target with only support available in the form of a wobbly small trees and eventually going actually for the pair tactics - shooter and spotter/rifle rest; or at targets (well, those were torso size figures) 500 meters away with a Kalašnikov, offhand and it's open sights, sitting on an APC (one machinegun letting loose at the side and myself going through a 30 rnd magazine in a minute). You do what you can with what you got.

I have seen some issues of actually depending too much on equipment, or rather getting more fixed with the equipment and less with actual training. It gets you, engulfs you, and eventually might make you try to solve training issues with additional gear.

If I am on stable flat ground I would consider using the bipod, or when I can rest the rifle on the window still, for example, with that. But there are times when the bipod would be a more of an hindrance.

That wooden spool for example, if the only support is in the middle of the gun, then I would actually support my support hand on that - lay the back of the hand on the spool and the rifle on the palm, perhaps grab the stock lightly, so it does not move easily, and go on from there. I am actually tending to use that kind of shooting, well since I don't have the bipod, for many instances, just use whatever I can to support me and my shooting hand, whether the support is wobbly, moving or whatever.

Scope power? Again, personal issue and "depends". I would go for as large as possible while keeping reasonable field of view. It would not do to waste time to looking through a keyhole. I would not go under the 1x per 100 m though, so if the targets are 500 meters away, for snap shooting I might use the 6-8 power (not below 5x anyway), but if I have a tad more time I could use the customary 12x and shoot both eyes open. Well, I do the last one anyway.
 
Last edited:
I want to say first off that if you guys havnt shot at K&M that you are missing out, They put on some of the best matches around. I agree with Tom that the surgeon bottom metal is well worth the extra money for barricade reasons alone. I have beat mine to death and have to give it credit alot of times for the extra stability off of crazy shooting positions that the match directors come up with. Here lately i have been working more on the unstable standing off single barricade, "kind of like the bus stage at MO tom" mainly working on trigger control for the shots where you cant always be 100% supported.
 
more videos with interesting positions

http://vimeo.com/38917370

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=B2VXdTLlmfU


notice several positions like the car and roof tops and another spool where the rifle is supported only from the center.

and shooting off an inclined surface around 49 sec? notice how the guy used his pack to make it level and the girl didn't?

notice at 1:10 (you may have to pause it) Scott is shooting standing and instead of using a sling, he's stuffed a giant rear bag/pillow between his support elbow and body

i'd rather shoot movers at 500 yards than movers inside 100. ugh
 
Try this:
Shooting from car trunks, back seats, and underneath. Drainage pipes, laying prone in gutters, or alongside curbs. Up against chain-link fences, and from attic props with joists and under roofs. The best one was laying in a running stream for a down-canyon shot on a mover.
 
Tom, I shot at the rifle ranch for our club finally in february. That place is by far the best place I have shot at in my limited experience. I feel lucky to be in a rifle club with these guys, and they never fail to challenge you. I have learned more in a few short months of shooting with these guys than in the last five years shooting at the family ranch. Barricades, tires, tree trunks, and fence posts have become more of the norm in my shooting because of these challenges. It truly has taken my shooting to the next level.
 
pdd, kevin and rich are great guys (the two doing the morning briefing in that video). awesome awesome shooters. i was in the group of shooters shuffling out the door (into the freezing rain and gumbo).

the 2013 lone star challenge is in 2 weeks. i am predicting it will be the best match of the year. can't wait!
 
I'm not ashamed to admit that when given the opportunity, I try to shoot next to Kevin, Rich, and the other experienced guys. I am always watching how they approach and work out the problems of stage, and listening to the dialog. I simply can't believe how much can be gained by simply paying attention to those who are clearly more experienced than I am.

I am sticking to the monthly club matches for at least a year. After that, I may try my hand at some of the bigger matches like "the lone star challenge". Either way, I am having a blast.
 
Case in point. Here is a picture of me at last months match.

photo_zps0ae89fc5.jpg

Only had two hits out of a possible six. I had the wrong stance for the stage. With a 15-25mph full value wind, my body position was acting like a sail. I had all kinds of problems with the wind blowing my left and right. If I would have taken a wide stance, I might have been able to get a few more hits. Lessons learned.
 
pdd, dang, it doesn't get much harder than that. depending on where the targets were (if all in the same spot) i'd have taken a very wide stance and leaned into the rifle to let the post support as much of my body weight as possible. in low-wind, you probably would have seen some competitors put their knee into the post, but my guess is most would stand off against hte post by locking their support arm

still, it comes down to sight alignment and trigger control
 
chain link fence is fun to make people shoot through.

i also appreciate making people shoot through knee high ports, and ports that are a wide strip that is very narrow top to bottom.
 
mtncreek, yeah, no kidding! my rifles are pretty beat up.

penguin, most of these matches are advertised on the forums at www.tacticalmatches.com and snipershide.com

3 weekends ago i shot a match in missouri. The midwest masters benefit in camdenton, mo. and the following week they had a new shooter match which was the same course of fire with bigger targets and easier time limits. you could probably contact them to inquire about any local / club matches in the area. and of course, the premier rifle builder GAP is in KC, so i'm sure there's some shooting going on around there.
 
shooting off a roof at a mover (shown in that video) is definitely an interesting challenge because the way most people set up on a roof top gives them vertical support that makes it difficult to pan laterally without changing the angle. and of course, there is a lot of friction on roof shingles, so it's hard to slide (ironically, it's still easy for your body to slide down! good thing they have a rail there as it saved my butt once...). you almost have to pick up, move and set back down. (if your support is artificial like a bag.)

so... it makes you think. when you shoot movers prone, do you prefer to ambush or track? if you are shooting a mover off a barricade, does that change your strategy/preference?
 
shooting a mover off a barricade, does that change your strategy/preference?
Click to expand...

I guess I'd have to try it to know for sure :)

I think I'd ambush either way. From normal prone, I can go toes / elbows down and shift quickly to the next target or to setup again on same target. If I try to track, I quickly get into an unstable position.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

A
  • Locked
rifle help?
Replies
10
Views
877
Axis II
A
F
  • Locked
Getting into "Practical Long Range Rifle Shooting"/Wannabe Sniper
2
Replies
29
Views
2K
Harold Mayo
H
Huntolive
  • Locked
Ruger Precision rifles, Great or Gimmick?
2
Replies
25
Views
2K
Chuck R.
Chuck R.
J
  • Locked
Why do sniper, varmint, or precision rifles have to be big and heavy?
2
Replies
27
Views
5K
aspade
A
dak0ta
  • Locked
Benching a Mountain Rifle for Groups
Replies
4
Views
452
GooseGestapo
GooseGestapo
Back
Top