Me and my family were returning home on a car trip this morning. I saw a guy on the road, dressed in all black with a hoodie up, standing on the drivers' side of the right lane. We were in the left, and just as we approached he sprinted over the drivers' side of our car. So I whipped out one of those nice shiny Pakistani knives and nodded at him. He smiled , nodded back, and backed off. I was proud because I figured I had just saved my parents from a carjacking, but they ignored his behavior and got mad at me for being bloodthirsty or something. What I wanna know is, how do y'all prevent getting carjacked? I'm too young to own handguns, that's why I only had a knife, so don't get on me for that.
Preemptive Carjacking Strike!
- Thread starter CZ 42
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revjen45
Member
You could get a better knife maybe. 
I had my favorite, a CRKT Cruiser, in my pocket (best knife I've ever laid hands on- $30) but it wasn't a suitably shiny knife for the task. I flashed a little sunlight into his eyes with my little $3 pakistan special and that seemed to work just fine. I wonder if he thought I had already carjacked these people and was just taking them along for the ride. Since we were outside of Ft. Benning where all the crime is, I suppose it wouldn't be ridiculous to assume that happens sometimes...
ScottsGT
Member
Your parents are the "sheep" we often refer to here on THR. One day they might thank you.
Ultrachimp
Member
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CZ 42 - maybe that's why he smiled at you
He didn't want to take another wolf's kill.
Wolves bite each other sometimes, ya know?
He didn't want to take another wolf's kill.
Wolves bite each other sometimes, ya know?
mljdeckard
Member
The law might not smile on you showing a knife when there was no clear threat of violence. I might have started with a hard look and a hand up. When he's looking, point back. ("Not here. Go somewhere else.") If he THEN persisted, one might escalate.
This one is difficult to call not knowing the neighborhood and circumstances.
This one is difficult to call not knowing the neighborhood and circumstances.
Devonai
Member
It sounds more likely that the man was trying to cross a busy intersection. People cross the street in Columbus, don't they?
thexrayboy
Member
That is a real difficult situation to judge, and that is why the criminal so often has the edge over his prey. When using a blade for self defense you have no opportunity to dispense violence till the person who is intended to recieve it is very close. This invasion of personal space tends to support the "reasonable fear" that is the criteria for justifying self defense. It also
greatly increases the risk of injury that is minimized by the use of firearms.
Because firearms are effective at very great distance compared to blades it is more difficult to effectively demonstrate to others your "reasonable fear".
Unless the criminal has a projectile weapon or has made specific, consistent and credible threats of violence it is very hard to justify force until force if first offered by the criminal. This while unfortunate is the nature of crime.
Being vigilant and being able to demonstrate during the "interview"phase of the crime that you are not an easy mark will go a long ways in deterring the crime. However some criminals are not deterred. This requires us to practice, train and accept the fact that we may have to inflict violence, perhaps without clear concrete evidence that the violence is justifed. To wait till clear justification exists would occasionally mean waiting too long.
Unfortunately in life there really are occasional no win situations.
greatly increases the risk of injury that is minimized by the use of firearms.
Because firearms are effective at very great distance compared to blades it is more difficult to effectively demonstrate to others your "reasonable fear".
Unless the criminal has a projectile weapon or has made specific, consistent and credible threats of violence it is very hard to justify force until force if first offered by the criminal. This while unfortunate is the nature of crime.
Being vigilant and being able to demonstrate during the "interview"phase of the crime that you are not an easy mark will go a long ways in deterring the crime. However some criminals are not deterred. This requires us to practice, train and accept the fact that we may have to inflict violence, perhaps without clear concrete evidence that the violence is justifed. To wait till clear justification exists would occasionally mean waiting too long.
Unfortunately in life there really are occasional no win situations.
Yeah, people cross the street in Columbus, but this guy waited until we got close to dart to the drivers' side. To me that was just typical ******* jaywalker behavior but he stopped and stuck his hands in his hoodie pockets right there. I looked back at him while fishing out my knife, and he was looking straight at us. My dad thought he was just crossing, but I live by "Be Prepared" and when in a strange town I keep all the defenses I can around with me. As far as reasonable fear goes, I'm not paranoid. I feel within my rights to take a short range weapon out in my own car, because why would it scare anyone outside the vehicle unless they were planning on entering against my will? I figured this guy wasn't crazy enough to try it even after it was cleary understood that he would have a hell of a lot of resistance if he didn't desist or shoot me. There are plenty of cars in Columbus, but not too many with a knife wielding seatmate.
Oops! Double post. Anyway, Devonai, there are an infinite number of monkeys outside and they have this script of Hamlet they want us to look at. Remember that? Best series in the world. It's my bible. I give the Ultimate edition to a lot of my friends in the hopes of making them converts.
gunsmith
member
probably aint no law
against open carry of cheap knives in your car.
It sounds like the feller was more interested in asking
for spare change, or maybe he was a carjacker.
against open carry of cheap knives in your car.
It sounds like the feller was more interested in asking
for spare change, or maybe he was a carjacker.
I agree.
exdetsgt
Member
Hard call. As a former LEO I'd be tempted to say wait 'til he at least tries to open the car door - but then you said he stuck his hands in his hoodie's pockets. Who knows what lurks there. Seconds to decide, and as thexrayboy has it, waiting too long can cause problems.
Best advice, and I'm sure you've heard this often: taking a knife to a gun fight is often not a good idea.
Best advice, and I'm sure you've heard this often: taking a knife to a gun fight is often not a good idea.
How old are you, out of curiosity?
You may have prevented a carjacking, or you may have just scared off a beggar, jaywalker, or windshield-washer. There's no way to tell without actually being there.
One word of advice: don't expose your weapon unless you're going to use it. You don't know if he was armed or if you were outgunned. He could have had his hand on a weapon pointed at you through his pocket. The element of suprise is your friend.
You may have prevented a carjacking, or you may have just scared off a beggar, jaywalker, or windshield-washer. There's no way to tell without actually being there.
One word of advice: don't expose your weapon unless you're going to use it. You don't know if he was armed or if you were outgunned. He could have had his hand on a weapon pointed at you through his pocket. The element of suprise is your friend.
230RN
2A was "political" when it was first adopted.
I think you did good, regardless of neighborhood, etc, although with several folks in the car, the chances of him wanting to carjack diminish. But this kind of stuff is spreading out to the safe 'burbs and they are getting bolder. And those are exactly the kinds of ploy they use in the approach phase: got the time, do you know where there's a MacWendyKings?, which way is Blergsdorf Street?
Your Dad may need an education in street smarts. Take a look at Pax's "The Conered Cat" site for descriptions of the various phases leading to an assault.
You could have brought a pencil along and sharpened it with long, slow, precision strokes while grinning evilly at him.
Same kind of thing happened to me in front of my bank last summer...I noticed a guy hanging around outside, and when I came out I sat in the car organizing all my little receipts and such. I had my .380 in a belly pack, and as he approached, I unzipped it and reached in, clearly showing I was armed, without actually showing the gun.
When he got to my car window and started to open his mouth, I interrupted him by saying loudly, affirmatively, and baritonally, "I have nothing for you!" and moving my hand, gripping the .380, inside the belly pack.
He said, "Oh, sorry," and moved away quickly. I realize I should not have let him get that close to my car in the first place, but, after all, there are social niceties which conflict with a defensive mode of thinking.
This technique of interrupting them seems to short-circuit them. I use that a lot with the panhandlers around LoDo (Lower Downtown Denver). I am the most generous of persons, but I won't give them a dime or the time, or a cigarette, or a light, or directions, or anything.
Besides, most of the panhandlers probably have a net worth greater than mine. Theirs may be zero, but mine is negative.
Your Dad may need an education in street smarts. Take a look at Pax's "The Conered Cat" site for descriptions of the various phases leading to an assault.
You could have brought a pencil along and sharpened it with long, slow, precision strokes while grinning evilly at him.
Same kind of thing happened to me in front of my bank last summer...I noticed a guy hanging around outside, and when I came out I sat in the car organizing all my little receipts and such. I had my .380 in a belly pack, and as he approached, I unzipped it and reached in, clearly showing I was armed, without actually showing the gun.
When he got to my car window and started to open his mouth, I interrupted him by saying loudly, affirmatively, and baritonally, "I have nothing for you!" and moving my hand, gripping the .380, inside the belly pack.
He said, "Oh, sorry," and moved away quickly. I realize I should not have let him get that close to my car in the first place, but, after all, there are social niceties which conflict with a defensive mode of thinking.
This technique of interrupting them seems to short-circuit them. I use that a lot with the panhandlers around LoDo (Lower Downtown Denver). I am the most generous of persons, but I won't give them a dime or the time, or a cigarette, or a light, or directions, or anything.
Besides, most of the panhandlers probably have a net worth greater than mine. Theirs may be zero, but mine is negative.
Could be you saved yourself and your folks from a nasty incident, could be you flashed a knife at someone who was not really a threat.
A lot of what us normal, law abiding people see as hostile and aggressive is basically normal ghetto behavior. Unless you are exposed to it all the time it tends to make you real nervous.
I think displaying it was a mistake, but that is MMQB. I think a better approach might have been to make it handy but not display it to a potential carjacker.
Cops are not overjoyed with teenagers who display knives, regardless of whether said teenager thinks its a good idea. If the guy had called the cops to report you threatened him with a knife, you might well have had some serious explaining to do. It is relatively simple to explain an incident where you actually had to engage the guy, but when he never actually attacked you, it is harder to explain why you flashed a knife at him.
A lot of what us normal, law abiding people see as hostile and aggressive is basically normal ghetto behavior. Unless you are exposed to it all the time it tends to make you real nervous.
I think displaying it was a mistake, but that is MMQB. I think a better approach might have been to make it handy but not display it to a potential carjacker.
Cops are not overjoyed with teenagers who display knives, regardless of whether said teenager thinks its a good idea. If the guy had called the cops to report you threatened him with a knife, you might well have had some serious explaining to do. It is relatively simple to explain an incident where you actually had to engage the guy, but when he never actually attacked you, it is harder to explain why you flashed a knife at him.
Cannonball888
Member
Since he made no threat what you did was illegal. If he had called the cops things could have gone badly for you.
I am not sure either of your assertions is true. There is no where near enough information available to make such a judgment. And what we have comes from one side.
It is telling that the other occupants of the vehicle did not feel threatened though, and it would make me believe your thinking has some merit.
pbearperry
Member
Carjacking?
That's why I always keep my doors locked.That way I have time to figure out if it is a bad guy,a window washer or whatever.That being said,I always suspect a hoodie guy esp if he has baggy pants.
That's why I always keep my doors locked.That way I have time to figure out if it is a bad guy,a window washer or whatever.That being said,I always suspect a hoodie guy esp if he has baggy pants.
Devonai
Member
Sorry for the sarcastic tone of my first comment. I have to agree with the others that while vigilance is always good, flashing the knife may not have been necessary or appropriate.
Now if you had flashed your towel, he would have known who he was dealing with.
Now if you had flashed your towel, he would have known who he was dealing with.
He would've be sassing with that hoopy frood who really knows where his towel's at . Unfortunately my towel was in my briefcase. I still see no harm in openly holding a knife in my own car, unless he was a plainschlothes. A gun may've been a bit much for anyone, I wouldn't flash that in any circumstance really.
All you gotta remember is: DON'T PANIC.
. Unfortunately my towel was in my briefcase. I still see no harm in openly holding a knife in my own car, unless he was a plainschlothes. A gun may've been a bit much for anyone, I wouldn't flash that in any circumstance really.All you gotta remember is: DON'T PANIC.
It doesn't sound like the OP exhibited his knife in an "angry or threatening manner", so no crime appears to have been committed. Plus, if the guy is really a panhandler or squeegee man, then there is a zero percent chance that guy will call the police over seeing a knife in the back seat of a car.
I think it's a tough call when to display a weapon. Often, it's a great way to head off a confrontation, as in this case. Othertimes, you don't want to tip off an attacker to the degree to which you are armed. I don't really have the answer, other than to say it sounds like you did good. The guy backed off, but didn't get alarmed. A perfect solution.
-John
I think it's a tough call when to display a weapon. Often, it's a great way to head off a confrontation, as in this case. Othertimes, you don't want to tip off an attacker to the degree to which you are armed. I don't really have the answer, other than to say it sounds like you did good. The guy backed off, but didn't get alarmed. A perfect solution.
-John
So was there any reason in particular you felt it was the proper moment to display the knife and possibly exercise the use of deadly force, or are you just paranoid, or just being cool here on THR? I see absolutely no valid reason for you to have brandished a knife when you did - maybe I am missing some threat that was made toward you, or maybe you simply overreacted to someone who may have needed help, or just wanted to cross the street. Don't you make eue contacxtg with drivers before walking in front of their cars, if not shame on you for not crossing safely.
Your knife drawing move seems to be jumping the gun, and quite immature or as I said paranoid to some extent, that is unless there was some threat posed by the gun coming over toward your car. Other than him being dressed in all black (the proverbial bad guy) with a hoodie up (very ghetto slang - are you trying to say he was a gangbanger or a miniority, or was it just chilly or cold outside) did he actually do one thing that posed a threat? Was he armed? Was he reaching for your door handle? Did he make verbal threats, such as did he demand anything of you? From the scenario as you posted it, it seems he was as likely to be about to ask for help as he was to even hint at being threatening. It is quite possibe that he smiled and nodded at you to appease someone he believed to be a madman who had just pulled out a knife and then smiled with a maniacal grin.
If you at all felt this guy a threat, then the first thing you should have done was to make sure the car locks were closed as you alerted the others in the car to a possible threat. Then you should have driven away from him if at all possible, instead of sitting there, pulling a knife, smiling at him with a nod, and making like some kind of a weirdo yourself. Getting yourself out of harms way, if at all possible, is always the best way to avoid being hurt. Pulling out a knife and sitting there allowing this guy to make the next move, would have been about the wordst thing to do, had he actually been an armed person intent on harming you. For instance, if he had had a gun, guess what, Bang - Bang - Bang - and youprobaly lose with a good chance someone in your family would also be wounded.
You possibly are without knowing it acting out some bravado, macho, role that could get you hurt. Flashing a cheap knife to catch the sunlight. Come on man, be realistic, use some sense to protect yourself and your family, and resort to deadly force when it is actually warranted; and maybe stop watching all those Rambo reruns. That may seem harsh, but what you did was pure overreaction from how you explained it.
Best regards,
Glenn B
Your knife drawing move seems to be jumping the gun, and quite immature or as I said paranoid to some extent, that is unless there was some threat posed by the gun coming over toward your car. Other than him being dressed in all black (the proverbial bad guy) with a hoodie up (very ghetto slang - are you trying to say he was a gangbanger or a miniority, or was it just chilly or cold outside) did he actually do one thing that posed a threat? Was he armed? Was he reaching for your door handle? Did he make verbal threats, such as did he demand anything of you? From the scenario as you posted it, it seems he was as likely to be about to ask for help as he was to even hint at being threatening. It is quite possibe that he smiled and nodded at you to appease someone he believed to be a madman who had just pulled out a knife and then smiled with a maniacal grin.
If you at all felt this guy a threat, then the first thing you should have done was to make sure the car locks were closed as you alerted the others in the car to a possible threat. Then you should have driven away from him if at all possible, instead of sitting there, pulling a knife, smiling at him with a nod, and making like some kind of a weirdo yourself. Getting yourself out of harms way, if at all possible, is always the best way to avoid being hurt. Pulling out a knife and sitting there allowing this guy to make the next move, would have been about the wordst thing to do, had he actually been an armed person intent on harming you. For instance, if he had had a gun, guess what, Bang - Bang - Bang - and youprobaly lose with a good chance someone in your family would also be wounded.
You possibly are without knowing it acting out some bravado, macho, role that could get you hurt. Flashing a cheap knife to catch the sunlight. Come on man, be realistic, use some sense to protect yourself and your family, and resort to deadly force when it is actually warranted; and maybe stop watching all those Rambo reruns. That may seem harsh, but what you did was pure overreaction from how you explained it.
Best regards,
Glenn B
Well I can't lock my car doors from the passenger seat and I figured that showing a carjacker a "critical error in their victim selection process" would pretty quickly change their mind. I think it was better to be preventive than to wait and stab him if he did get us because, really, there are plenty of cars to steal in Columbus. I always figured we had a pretty stealable car, a blue civic. But it's not like we were a chosen, planned target; it wasn't his mission to steal our car in particular. I gave him a little smile, not a maniacal grin, to show a little understanding. Wouldn't it have been worse to scowl at him? I always like the smirk maneuver... But keep in mind I'm white, I keep my hair short, and this guy was black so if he was innocent and saw me as an unpredictable neonazi picking him at random to threaten, he would have more reason to call the cops, who might see it as a hate crime or something ridiculous like that. Instead I gave the impression of nodding him on accross the street while just happening to hold a knife, you know, "It's alright, you can cross. I'm just looking at my potato peeler here..."
You are assuming he was a criminal intent on hurting you for nothing other than him crossing the street and looking at you! Don't you see how you - HOLDING A KNIFE - and smiling looked more aggressive than he, was more aggressive than he, and could have seemed to just anyone more dangerous than he. To say what you just wrote:
then to believe that any rational person crossing the street would imagine you suddenly pulling a knife and grining at them to be a sign of "you can cross..." simply amazes me. This has got to be a troll.
Bye.
then to believe that any rational person crossing the street would imagine you suddenly pulling a knife and grining at them to be a sign of "you can cross..." simply amazes me. This has got to be a troll.
Bye.
Probably just an aggressive panhandler but I wasn't there so I can't really comment.
Did he run around the front or back of the car to get at you?
What if he had a gun? Gun beats Paki knife, especially if he was approaching from behind you. You may have saved the car, but he could have put a few pills into your head as well as your parents and then run away.
I would personally lock the doors and wait to respond with with either foot on gas or knife at contact range. Winning a knife fight is easier if the other guy doesn't know you have a knife.
Did he run around the front or back of the car to get at you?
What if he had a gun? Gun beats Paki knife, especially if he was approaching from behind you. You may have saved the car, but he could have put a few pills into your head as well as your parents and then run away.
I would personally lock the doors and wait to respond with with either foot on gas or knife at contact range. Winning a knife fight is easier if the other guy doesn't know you have a knife.
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