Preferred method of slide manipulation/racking

[stchman]

I tried teh hand over slide method and where the chamber and barrel meet caught the bottom of my hand.

 

[montgomery381]

I use the overhand method because of what I was taught in the academy. They explained that in high stress situations, like lethal force encounters, your fine motor skills drastically deminsh. This means that releasing your slide lock with your thumb would become very difficult. Also it is a natural movement for your body, for your hands to come together. So along with this method mimicking the motion that you would use to clear a stove pipe type jam it is also a more instinctive movement, and therefore is more reliable in a life or death situation.

 

[wrench]

Overhand, always, unless it's a .22 without a normal slide.
I find that motion much more fluid and intuitive than the slingshot.
Slap in the mag, overhand rack the slide, no unnecessary motion, gun back on target.
Muzzle is always downrange.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I tried teh hand over slide method and where the chamber and barrel meet caught the bottom of my hand.

Your hand should be completely behind the ejection port...four fingers on one side of the slide, the base of the thumb on the other, the thumb points straight back toward your shoulder

 

[KAS1981]

Hand over slide, unless it's my Beretta.

 

[chhodge69]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stchman View Post
I tried teh hand over slide method and where the chamber and barrel meet caught the bottom of my hand.

Your hand should be completely behind the ejection port...four fingers on one side of the slide, the base of the thumb on the other, the thumb points straight back toward your shoulder

and... let go of the slide. Let it slam forward and don't walk it back down.

 

[Maple_City_Woodsman]

Most of my pistols have giant slide lock levers that you can hit in your sleep - so I use the slide lock reload.

 

[mortablunt]

I do it with my hand over the slide. It gives me better leverage and a stronger grasp.

 

[rcjohnson]

Hand over slide is better for all the reasons discussed - requires less fine motor skills, fluid motion from inserting a mag, and same motion for clearing a jam as for reloading. Plus, for me, my hand snakes across the pistol never leaving contact which allows me to continue looking straight at my intended target and holding the pistol on target. Far more reliable than letting my hands separate from a sling shot method. And much much better leverage. In the slingshot method, my left hand is at a slightly awkward angle in order to keep on target. And, if the slide gets jammed part way, the sling shot method is not as strong.

I'm glad I switched.

 

[OregonJohnny]

I know that the hand over slide method is the current popular technique that most, if not all, of the schools are teaching right now. I can understand the reasons. With a full size gun with a tall slide and no controls on the rear of the slide (1911, Glock, XD, Sig, HK, etc.), it works perfectly well. It is the same motion to clear a stovepipe as well. Consistency is key in training for failures.

But on a tiny gun (Ruger LCP) or even on a full size gun with a rather small and short serrated area on the slide, and controls back there (the Beretta 92/M9), I don't like it. I prefer the slingshot on this weapon. Here are my personal reasons:

1. That's how I've been doing it since I was 11 or so with my dad's Beretta 96, so it's instinctive.

2. The safety/decocker lever on the rear of the slide can be accidentally swept down and engaged when doing a quick over hand rack. Not good in a panic situation.

3. When over handing with the Beretta, my hand seems to always end up covering the ejection area, and usually getting pinched in the Beretta's massive gaping open top slide design.

I truly believe the Beretta was never designed for the over hand method. It just doesn't work as well as it does on my 1911 or XD. The same goes for the slide catch on the Beretta. Releasing the slide is much more easily achieved via the slide catch lever without having to shift your grip at all. On a 1911, I have to shift my shooting grip in order for my thumb to comfortably reach the slide catch lever, which tells me the 1911 was probably designed to be put back into battery via a strong over hand yank of the slide. This is also the "gross motor skills vs. fine motors skills" debate that always occurs when discussing slide release methods. The slide yank is a much more deliberate and gross movement versus the thumbing of the lever, and therefor seems to usually win the debate in many circles. But the slide catch lever on the Beretta works for me 100% of the time, and feels very familiar and controlled, so that's how I operate that gun.

My point in all of this is that 1 single method isn't always best for all shooters and all handgun designs. 80-90% of all semi-autos probably work well with the over hand method. The Beretta 92/M9 isn't one of them (at least not for me).

 

[LCPor9mm]

Slingshot

I must be a freak. I have far better control and strength pinching the slide between my thumb and fingers, then between my fingertips and palm. This applies to my 1911, 9mm, or .380. I always keep the gun pointed downrange and never ride it. It's safe, fast and I never get hit by any fast moving steel such as the rear site.

 

[Maple_City_Woodsman]

Hand over slide is better for all the reasons discussed - requires less fine motor skills, fluid motion from inserting a mag,

I'm not saying hand over slide is bad ... but I've never been able to believe the above two claims unless you are specifically talking about modern polymer pistols.

On many older style semi auto pistols, the slide lock lever is simply huge - 1911, Beretta, Hi Power, CZ, S&W, even Bersa - are all so darn big that literally any downward swipe will hit the lever and release the slide. Additionally, your thumb is already in position to hit the lever on those pistols when you insert the mag; you don't have to move your hand at all.

 

[9mmepiphany]

literally any downward swipe will hit the lever and release the slide. Additionally, your thumb is already in position to hit the lever on those pistols when you insert the mag; you don't have to move your hand at all.

Interestingly the Elimination Challenge on this week's Top Shot was between a shooter who used the overhand grasp and another who used the slide lock to release the slide when reloading. The actual motion of releasing the slide with the slide lock was faster, but the overhand grab was smoother and got the shooter back on target faster. It was an interesting comparison as both were handgun guys

 

[Dr.Rob]

Slingshot.

I had a custom 1911 do a hammer-follow through and the gun went off. Thanks to 4 rules I was pointed safely downrange and low.

I see a lot of people do that overhand incorrectly and end up with a gun pointed at thier elbow or the guy in the next shooting lane.

If its done RIGHT, I have no issue with overhand.

 

[Waywatcher]

Interesting thread.

Beretta 92s with their slide mounted safeties are not conducive to the overhand method, but I don't shoot beretta 92s.

Overhand, with the muzzle pointed downrange, works for me and my Glock. I do it quickly and my weak hand continues backward after letting go of the slide.

Whichever way we do it, just make sure to let go of the slide--don't walk it forward.

 

[Litlman]

I use both depending on the weapon. If you go to Yutube and search Clint Smith there is a video of him doing multiple slide jam drills. He brings his thumb all the way back to his chest/shoulder area when manipulating the slide. I have also seen video on Best Defense where "Tiger Mcgee" Shows the same type of method. The thumb of the weak grasping hand follows all the way through towards your body. (These guys are 1911 guys).

 

[ATLDave]

I'm not saying hand over slide is bad ... but I've never been able to believe the above two claims unless you are specifically talking about modern polymer pistols.

On many older style semi auto pistols, the slide lock lever is simply huge - 1911, Beretta, Hi Power, CZ, S&W, even Bersa - are all so darn big that literally any downward swipe will hit the lever and release the slide. Additionally, your thumb is already in position to hit the lever on those pistols when you insert the mag; you don't have to move your hand at all.

This is true in my experience. Also, if fine motor control is so degraded that I cannot hit a big ole' lever on the side of the gun with my thumb (particularly if that's a move I've practiced hundreds of times on that gun), then I probably am not going to be able to get a shot on target. Trigger control is a fine motor skill, too!

I went home last night and tried the overhand method with both my Browning BDM and my Witness Elite Match. In both instances, I could not get my meaty hands to clear the ejection port reliably, felt I had to apply much more pressure, and couldn't easily see the chamber (to verify clear) when I had the slide back.

I also question the claim that one can always apply more force with the overhand method. Quick, press your fingertips into the heel of your hand; now press your thumb against the first knuckle of your index finger; which one applied more force? For me, and for a significant number of other people, it's the one where the thumb (the digit biologically designed for applying grasping forces) was involved. If you're going to pull on a rope, do you get it between your fingers and palm, or do you make sure it runs along the base of your fingers so it can pinched between your thumb and side of your index finger? In short, there's no other object in the world I manipulate by squeezing my fingers against the heel of my palm, and my hand has not evolved to use that method.

I suspect, at the end of the day, that there is no one best method, but only a best method given a particular shooter and a particular gun.

 

[Walkalong]

Hand over slide, grasp just behind the ejection port.

Why?

It incorporates a habit and a universal gun handling technique. Racking the slide and clearing a stovepipe become identical motions. Practically speaking - it means I don't have to spend time diagnosing the problem and thinking about which I need to do - clear it, or charge it.

I was taught that some 35+ years ago, and it plain works. You don't point the gun at yourself to do it right. For those who say they ride the slide hand over and it does not go into battery, they are doing it wrong. Sling shotting is good to check hammer follow, or just charging a fun gun at the range.

 

[Bonesinium]

The way I look at it, the hand over slide method is just asking for you to accidentally shoot yourself in the elbow area. It also tends to move the gun towards the sides a lot more than the hand behind slide style. I'll go for the hand behind style.

If either of these things are the case, the only thing I can say is, you are doing it wrong.

 

[56hawk]

This is true in my experience. Also, if fine motor control is so degraded that I cannot hit a big ole' lever on the side of the gun with my thumb (particularly if that's a move I've practiced hundreds of times on that gun), then I probably am not going to be able to get a shot on target. Trigger control is a fine motor skill, too!

I totally agree. Also if your fine motor control is so bad that you can't hit the slide release, how did you ever hit the mag release in the first place.

Some of my guns however don't have slide releases. On these I use the slingshot method. I find it to be faster, more natural, and keeps the gun on target. With the overhand method I have to bring the gun very close to my chest to get enough leverage to cycle the slide.

I really wonder where the overhand method and not using the slide release came from. Neither one makes much sense to me.

 

[ATLDave]

56hawk, I suspect (but do not know and certainly cannot prove) that it was a result of the Glock-ification of handguns. Using a slide release on a Glock is no good. Glocks have thick slides that can be effectively gripped using any method, and no safeties to be accidentally tripped/flipped by grabbing a whole lot of places on the slide. As Glocks and other polymer-framed, control-lever-free pistols came to dominate the LEO market, I suspect that the methods that work well with Glocks came to be viewed as "standard," rather than special to that type of gun.

I also wonder if it was partially encouraged by the increased numbers of female LEOs, some of whom probably had trouble with the slingshot method. For some reason, lots of women seem to loose strength/gripping power faster than men as their arms get further from their bodies (perhaps they are more efficiently using their torso muscles, rather than relying solely on arm muscles), and maybe the overhand method works better for them if they can get enough purchase on the slide.

Anyway, the ergos of the overhand method don't seem to work out with my hands and my guns. But if others find it beneficial (and can resist the tendency to point the gun sideways), then more power to them.

 

[BullfrogKen]

It came from critically thinking about universal gun handling skills.


By working the gun over the top of the slide, the motion to clear a stovepipe; is the same as clearing a jam; is the same as charging the gun after a reload; is the same as a lock-rip-work drill for a doublefeed.

It was an effort to reduce and distill the hand skills to one consistent method that will work to get the gun back into action, regardless of what caused it to go out of action. It was also an effort to eliminate the need for the shooter to actually diagnose what the problem is.

The shooter has the luxury of time to diagnose a problem on a square range. In the middle of a fight he simply won't have the time, or the mental concentration. His mind will be consumed with other concerns. Or at least it should be. If our training requires us to use scarce mental energy on diagnosing the problem and chosing the correct solution, our mind is no longer where it needs to be - in the fight.

 

[OregonJohnny]

if your fine motor control is so bad that you can't hit the slide release, how did you ever hit the mag release in the first place.

Wow. A very good point that I'll bet not many think of when discussing slide release methods, and gross vs. fine motor skills in an adrenalin dump.

About ergonomics - My Beretta 92FS was made for my hand. Maybe Italians tend to have long, slender fingers and thumbs like me, I don't know. But without shifting my shooting grip at all, my thumb can comfortably reach and manipulate the mag release, slide catch lever, and safety/decocker. On my full size 1911, reaching the slide catch lever with my thumb requires a shift of my shooting grip. 2 different guns that feel very different in the same hand, and require 2 different methods of slide manipulation.

To further complicate the matter, my Kahr CW9 goes into battery after a magazine change 100% of the time when using the slide catch lever. When employing the slingshot or over hand method to release the slide, it's about a 60-75% success rate, with the top round stripping off the fresh mag and hanging up half way into the chamber, or even nose-diving on the feed ramp. And no, I'm not riding the slide. It's the only semi-auto I own that does this.

I know that "different methods for different guns" is a dangerous philosophy when we're talking about high-adenalin, life-threatening situations. Maybe all the guns that one guy/gal shoots and carries perform exactly the same with the same method, but mine don't.

 

[9mmepiphany]

It came from critically thinking about universal gun handling skills.


By working the gun over the top of the slide, the motion to clear a stovepipe; is the same as clearing a jam; is the same as charging the gun after a reload; is the same as a lock-rip-work drill for a doublefeed.

This does define when the overhand slide rack comes from...and it is much older than the Glock

The sling shot method is useful only for loading the chamber. It's utility in a chamber check is limited as shooters have a tendency to over-retract the slide as them become tired during a long shooting session

 

[9mmepiphany]

To further complicate the matter, my Kahr CW9 goes into battery after a magazine change 100% of the time when using the slide catch lever. When employing the slingshot or over hand method to release the slide, it's about a 60-75% success rate, with the top round stripping off the fresh mag and hanging up half way into the chamber, or even nose-diving on the feed ramp. And no, I'm not riding the slide. It's the only semi-auto I own that does this.

My CW9 did this when it was new...that is why the owner's manual instructs owners to release the slide with the slide stop when reloading, also why they recommend a minimum 200 round cycle to settle the gun in for optimized function...after 200 +/- rounds, my CW9 will chamber rounds when the slide is hand cycled using the over hand method (it still wont do it when slingshoted)

I had the same concerns as you as to having to utilize different method to run that platform. I investigated the function and causation, coming to the conclusion that it is the result of operator error induced by the combination of the abbreviated grip frame and the tightly sprung slide.

The feeding stoppage is caused by the grip frame not being held rigidly while the slide it drawn completely to the rear. Shooters tend to allow the short grip frame to pivot/lever backwards as they retract the slide.