preferred reloading manuals?

[mpmillen]

hello all,

I am getting back into reloading aftera hiatus, and I was curious if anyone had any thoughts on the current crop of reloading manuals. For example, LEE Vol. 1 has lots of data, but it is just too much of an big advertisement, and it has no history of the cartridges. Speer #11 is pretty good, has great cartridge histories.

The 2 volume Hornady looks good, but seems very expensive. Opinions are appreciated. I would like to get 2-3 new manuals.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[cheygriz]

IMHO, the Speer and Hornady are about the best, with the Hodgdon a close second.

I also like the Accurate Arms manual and the Lyman.

But if I could only have one manual, it would be the two volume Hornady.

 

[ClarkEMyers]

Price of reloading safely is buying many books

Price of reloading safely is buying many books and wisely means keeping current. I can't test the quantity of loads at the range of temperatures and powder positions the manuals cover.

Notice the second volume of the Hornady is ballistics not loads - you may decide to pass and use something else. On the other hand I find that as bullets and powders, even brass and primers, change over time that buying new books is a necessity.

My favorite for reading are the old Lyman such as the digest size cast bullet books. My favorite for loading is the current book by the folks most closely associated with my components - often the bullet maker. That doesn't mean I take my gun as matching their volocities but it does mean I have too many guns that don't show pressure signs until the pressure is already too high so I like to have loads I can trust.

I know how to work up loads in bolt action rifles but I'm sure dubious about pressure signs in a handgun.

Among other things I load .376 Steyr with the traditional mid-range rifle powders and 9x23 with WAP and Nobel 7 if anybody can suggest a manual featuring those cartridges and tested loads with a variety of current bullets.

 

[Dave R]

I like Speer No. 13, for the reasons you describe.

I also like the fact that it lists loads in the order of velocity.

 

[schromf]

I agree with Clark, multiple and current manuals are required. Before working up any new load I want a reference in at least two manuals. What if your sole manual is a missprint? Your in deep Kimchee about .5 seconds after you pull the trigger.

I will comment on a trend in all the "new" manuals, they are all conservative and the loads have backed of by at least 5%. There are a couple of reasons for this, #1 is the loads are all pressure checked in actual guns and test barrels, they no longer rely on very good mathmatical guesses on pressure. #2 is the new manuals are a lot more product liability conscience, the don't publish close to or right at max loads anymore.

Good manuals: No reloading library should be without Ken Waters book on Pet Loads, I consider this a must have. I would also recommend the new Sierra Manual its a little pricey but if you load a lot of rifle cartridges its almost a requirement, a plus is the pistol load section. Other manuals I use a lot are my Hornady, and my Speer manuals. Another I use a lot is my Hogdon manual.

It isn't a reloading manual exactly but the NRA published a cartridge specification book, it has the best pressure information, a few handloads, good trim length and COL data. Bad news is I think it is out of print and has been for a while I didn't see it in the NRA store. Worth the hunt as I consider this one of my valuable handload library reference books.

Ok, now lets save you some money and help your reloading library. Most of these are free or cost under a dollar, and are updated almost every year.

Accurate Reloading Manual
VIHTAV ( available Online print it out )
Hercules/Alliant Powders Manual
Dupont (IMR) printed and available on line
There are several other powder manuals, almost every powder manufacturer makes this data available for free or close to nothing.

Other Manuals I use regularly:
Hornady
Nosler
Speer #4, #8, #9 ( I like my OLD Speer manuals better than the new ones)
Lyman- best for cast bullet data
Winchester- another Freebie or close to it ( look online)

Don't underestimate the Powder Manufacurers manuals this it top notch, thoughly tested data, and many times I find bullets or loads in these manuals that I can't find in other sources, just because it isn't expensive doesn't mean it isn't good.

I load a fair amount of wildcats, sources on these cartridges are a lot harder usually. It depends on the cat, some of the rarer cats are tough, my Speer #4 helps, but I keep reloading notebooks on these loads and cartridges. An example right now I am working on 404 Jeffrey loads, not in most manuals and it takes research.

On last word of caution MISTRUST all loads you get on line (excluding Powder Manufacturers) double check them, it doen't mean there wrong, just verify against a different source. If it looks wrong, or too hot don't use it. There are a lot of loads on line that are way over pressure, and some clown is cooking up some atomic loads, and swears he is getting normal pressure signs ( not that he knows how to read this). I frequent another board and I am seeing some loads on Ackley improved cartridges that are hotter than belted magnums. Two or three of these guys swear these are kosher loads. I and a couple of the other old handloading hands have our serious doubts, when somebody is claiming hotter loads with an improved case than I can get out of a magnum case with the same bullet. Also I caution stay away from duplex, and compressed loads until you are very experienced, these are dynamit when done wrong and very easy to make big Bo-Bo's.

Last I don't have it but this software (CD) will be my next udate to my reloading library: http://www.gmdr.com/rcbs/rcbs.htm It seems to have a ton of data.

Hope this helps.

 

[Sunray]

Lyman. 48th Edition I think. Lyman does not make powder or jacketed bullets. Their manual has more loads using more powders than any other. About $30 in your local gun shop.

 

[WhoKnowsWho]

I like the Lyman 48th Edition, it is usually the first one I turn too. I cross reference loads from the Speer and Lee manuals, and any free flyers I have too. The Lee book was just an extra book to add, since all my dies are Lee and most of the same information already comes with the dies!

 

[Jaywalker]

schromf:

I will comment on a trend in all the "new" manuals, they are all conservative and the loads have backed of by at least 5%. There are a couple of reasons for this, #1 is the loads are all pressure checked in actual guns and test barrels, they no longer rely on very good mathmatical guesses on pressure. #2 is the new manuals are a lot more product liability conscience, the don't publish close to or right at max loads anymore.

Respectfully, I'd submit that while your observations are accurate, your second conclusion is less so. While all businesses are more litigation-aware than in the past, I don't believe that's the reason for the observed pressure/velocity drop recently.

The piezo method of testing pressure is much more accurate than the previous crusher methods and detects pressure spikes of which we remained ignorant using the older methods. These spikes, that we didn't see before, have to be considered when determining max loads.

Also, the pressure readings some manuals list vary significantly shot-to-shot - the published pressure readings are averages that include the spikes. That's why one max load might read "51,000 psi" while another max might read "52,000 psi" against a SAAMI max of 55,000, for example. The wider the variance in the individual shots, the lower the allowed max pressure. (FWIW, one can make a good case for selecting a powder based upon how close the average reads to the SAAMI max - less variance could produce less variable velocity and accuracy.)

So, while there may be a "lawyer-pressure" factor in manuals in the future, I don't believe there is right now. As mentioned, reloading manuals are reference books, not well-loved bibles that remain valid forever. Personally, I won't use one older than five years from publication, and even then, I'll check against other sources.

Jaywalker

 

[Desert Dog]

IMHO...

Required:
Hornady
Speer
Lyman

Optional, but highly recommended:
Accurate Arms
Sierra

 

[theCZ]

I've got Speer and Sierra's latest. If I'm trying out new that I don't have info for, I go to the gunstore and they have load manuals behind the counter. I always turn to Nosler or Hornady's manuals. I've noticed a serious different between Sierra and Nosler's manuals. Looking up a 55g v-max with h-335 their max charge is the miniumum for ALL of Sierra's 55g bullets, including the bliztking and soft points. So I wondered with that, and with testing loads the sierra max ended up being the most accurate with no signs of too much pressure or stress.

 

[stans]

I seem to refer to the Lyman, Speer, and Hornady manuals most, with Sierra filling the number 4 spot.

 

[rbernie]

I find that I vastly prefer to use manuals that actually list the measured pressures along side of the load data.

Hornady and Hogdon manuals leap to mind as a couple of examples of this. Speer and Barnes, OTOH, are a couple of manuals that I'm not sure that I trust due to the lack of pressure data....

 

[schromf]

Jaywalker,

I agree completely on how the pressure testing today is much better and accurate. No agruement the newer piezo method is much more accurate, and it took a lot of the guesswork out of pressure and staying within or under SAAMI specs.

But the fact is the max and near max loads are gone from the newer manuals. I will use two ( very course I agree ) examples. Look up the loads in the 6.5x55 or the 7x57 ( any of the older cartridges with lower pressure limits are good also). The Swede is held in most manuals to the 45,000 PSI ( I prefer CUP) range. There are no loads that bring out the advantages of a modern rifle. Now I admit that in any manual I don't really consider the hottest loads safe until I have thoughly tested the development. But my ( New) Sierra Manual has Max loads with a 140 gr bullet at 2700 FPS and only three loads are listed that hot, and I agree with the powder choice on a least two. But in a modern rifle without pushing any safety envelope the Swede can very easily outpreform this. Norma factory ammo with a Nosler 140 gr bullet is 2789 fps and with a 139 grain bullet this is 2854 fps. your not going to see those loads in most manuals anymore. If you go to Lapua website they list some hotter loads with their powder only, but your not going to find it in the Sierra, Hornady, or Speer manuals. In new rifles the 6.5x55 can be loaded to 48,000-50,000 CUP with no safety issues.

The 7x57 is very similar not quite as conservative but still the same issue. I actually use a less than max load that is listed in my manuals on my rifles with 4350 powders the max loads are listed @ 47+ grains and I use 46.3-5 grains on my 150 Nosler loads. I could crank it up safely I know but wear and tear on my rifle/brass excellerates, and I am getting right at .65 MOA with my current loads and somewhere around 75 FPS increase isn't worth it. I figure if I need more velocity get a different cartridge.

It might not be all liability that has taken out the hotter loads, but I think in some of the older calibers this and safety concerns of older rifles have pretty much eliminated the hotter loads.

I will add a last comment that on the new more modern cartridges there is not much to improve on from the manuals, an example is the .308. The new manuals are pretty much right on concerning this cartridge there really isn't any room to increase these loads safely.

So yes I will concede that it wasn't a totally accurate statement, but it does apply to many cartridges, with research and common sense needed when you work on loads outside the manuals.

Edited: One last major complaint of mine is the manuals should add the SAAMI pressure spec to there manuals. It should be listed in the cartridge specification page with the rest of the information. I know that most reloaders don't have access to pressure testing equipment, but I always want to know what the cartridge was design and tested for. I proceed with much more caution testing load developments for a cartridge that has a spec of 40,000 Cup as opposed to 52,000 Cup. This is data I want to know up front before I start working with loads and it should be published. My Kudo's to Dupont who does list this information in their manual.

 

[Art Eatman]

The main reason I'm strong on the Sierra book is the amount of info on exterior ballistics. IMO, the best I've seen I have many others, of course. I'm partial to the Hodgdon...

Art

 

[Jaywalker]

schromf,

My comments were general as to loading manuals - you'll get no argument from me on the 6.5X55 and 7X57 category of cartridges being underloaded. They are clearly held to a lower pressure level due to the presence of large number of non-modern rifles. I believe SAAMI allows 5,000 more in modern than older 6.5X55 rifles, but few manual writers specify these loads. One that does is Ramshot - you can get higher pressure suggestions (using their powder) at their website.

Jaywalker

 

[kimbernut]

Reloading Manuals

In beginning to load for a new cartridge or experimenting on old ones I'll usually check all of my manuals and take notes as to preferred powders-(read "on hand"powders),min.& max charge/bullet type&weight so I have side by side comparison without having 6-8 open manuals scattered about. Then I'll list 3-4 powder/bullet combos I want to test and recheck the data on those before I actually start.
IMHO - must check manuals are: Speer,Hodgedon,Sierra,Lee#2,and (if 9mm,.357 mag,.45acp,or .44 mag handgun) the old Midway/Frankford Load notes.All of the above give multiple powders and projectile types.
- good added info manuals are:Nosler,Lyman,&Accurate Arms
The Nosler is limited to ,in most instances,only one or two Nosler bullets and the Accurate manual is limited to only their powders. I've just never really cared much for the Lyman manual (or their dies)

 

[ClarkEMyers]

I'd like more insight on manual production

I'd like more insight on how the books are done. I know when Ed Matunas was doing the Lyman testing he worked the temperature and powder position issues quite carefully.

Time was a lot of big name load development was done much the same way Waters did Pet Loads for Handloader - with a particular gun or guns and looking for pressure signs. I remember one of the manuals - Hornady? - even had a section on the little jig they made to measure case expansion with a dial indicator. I do that myself - although once I have calibrated if you will a gun and a lot of brass I can predict case expansion pretty well - though I still check it.

I take it the pizeo system has obsoleted all this and the newish Oehler instrumented gun allows folks like Ramshot to do a lot of testing without needing fantastic numbers of Mann style pressure barrels. I still don't see all the guidance I'd like on position sensitivity or temperature sensitivity.

Life would be simpler if more people would be willing to do more work to develop a consensus - finding consensus loads for .308 or .223 is pretty easy. As noted I'd like such consensus loads for 9x23 and the same volume of information for .376 Steyr.

 

[enfield]

I find I use the Speer and Hornady manuals the most. I also have Sierra. When I bought my first .40 I had to buy a new manual, as the ones I had didn't cover any new-fangled cartridges.

 

[greg531mi]

Searay said it:
Lyman. 48th Edition I think. Lyman does not make powder or jacketed bullets. Their manual has more loads using more powders than any other. About $30 in your local gun shop.

Also too, Lyman will put a favorite load in their manual. so at least you can buy a good powder for your round. Speer, I do not reconmend, some of their loads are hot, use two or three sources, I pick up free powder booklets from the powder manufacturers, and compare them to published loads, also got 25 years of Handloader magazine to do research on.
I do all of that before even buying a powder to work with. Then, I work my way up from Starting loads to Maximun, and see how they function and group, and look for pressure signs too.
Buy a bullet puller too, because you will want to save componets on mistakes....
Make notes and have a notebook on your experiments, because you are experimenting.....
Myself, I start working up rifle rounds, from the starting load, 1 grain at a time
to maximun, 5 rounds per load.
For pistol, work up .1 grain per load from the starting load.
Mark them in the box, and make a trip to the range and make notes at the range.
Too many reloaders out there do not do this work, or just load to maximun, and that's either trouble, or lousy groups.
Reloading is fun to me, and I can shoot a lot more, with better ammo than factory.