Primer Selection

[mikemyers]

The last time I looked, I found a single primer listed for all 38 Special loads, one for all 44 Special loads, and one for 45 ACP.


I need to buy bullets, primers, and powder. I don't know which bullets I'll be able to find, and ditto for primers and powder. I tried to look this up on "www.handloads.com" example:
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44%20Special&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Source=
..........and found out that the primer you select can depend on the choice of bullet.

For 44 Special, choices include CCI 300 and WLP
For 38 Special, choices include CCI 500, and Fed 100
For 45 ACP, choices include CCI LP, REM 2-1/2, and Fed 150


If I go to the Unique website,
http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/unique_handgun.aspx
.....the choices are simpler - Unique is used with a CCI-300 primer for both 44 S&W Special and 45 Colt, and the CCI-500 primer is used with 38 Special.


Why would the choice of primer be determined by the weight of the bullet? If I stick with CCI-300 and CCI-500, is that a reasonable thing to do?

 

[hanno]

Buy Small Pistol Primers for your .38 Special and Large Pistol Primers for your .44 and .45 ACP. Don't over-think this. I have used CCI, Winchester, Federal, Mag-Tech (based on best price and availability) for .38 Special and .45 ACP). Never a problem.

 

[Walkalong]

There are some combinations that need a mag primer, but for most things a standard primer will do just fine. Unique doesn't need a mag primer in any caliber.

 

[joem1945]

I try to buy CCI, Winchester or Federal. I will not buy russian primers as I had one go off while priming and no it wasn't crushed. I had a surplus batch of some mil spec powder that required a mag primer to light off. It worked very well but it's all used up.

 

[BigBore45]

metallic loadings is not like shotgun loading, any primer as long as it is what is designated ( Large Pistol, Small Pistol, Large Rifle, Small Rifle) will work with any load listed for that caliber. There are magnum primers for magnum calibers like 44 mag, 357 mag, 300 Win Mag.

 

[moxie]

Mike,

The brand of primer really doesn't matter except in a few rare cases. Small or large pistol primers of any brand will take care of any .38 Spl., .44 Spl., or .45ACP. Note that .45ACP usually takes large pistol primers but sometimes you will encounter them that take the small primers. It's OK and uses the same powder charge. You will almost never need magnum primers.

Note that a particular load manual may state that they use brand a, b, or c. But that doesn't mean you can't use the other brands. Large or small is all you need to know.

 

[jwrowland77]

Depending on which powder I choose, will depend on which primer I grab.

Like using a mag primer with a ball powder.

It's all about testing too, and seeing what performs the best in your particular firearm.

Always start low and workup when switching primers to test.

 

[rcmodel]

In the grand scheme of things reloading, the brand of primers you use is right down there next to what brand zip-lock bags you use to put the reloads in.

It simply doesn't matter.

The difference in primer selection boils down to what powder you are using.

Flake powders such as Bullseye, Unique, 2400, etc. Do best with standard primers.
Makes no difference what brand, or what the data calls for.

Slow ball powders such as W-296 /H-110, and others require mag primers.
Makes no difference what brand, or what the data calls for.

But in this day and age, just use whatever you can find to use.
Makes no difference what brand.

rc

 

[Rule3]

Well lets see, Who owns the Companies involved with Unique powder (Alliant)

All under the big giant ATK which also owns CCI. So what primer would they recommend? Plus Federal

http://www.atk.com/about/business-groups/atk-sporting-group

" Look for these leading brands: Bushnell, BLACKHAWK!, Eagle, Alliant Powder, RCBS, Champion Target, Final Approach, Gunslick Pro, Primos, Bollé, Outers, Hoppe’s, Uncle Mike’s, Butler Creek and Weaver Optics.

Ammunition
The Sporting Group supplies small-caliber ammunition to sport-shooting enthusiasts, devoted hunters, federal and local law enforcement agencies, and the military. Our ammunition brands include Federal Premium, CCI, Fusion, Speer Ammo, Speer Bullets, Estate Cartridge and Blazer."

As far as which size primer that would be covered under your reloading manuals

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm not sure where you got the idea primers are matched to powders but as you see, everyone including me are telling you only the primer size counts, not the brand.

I'm a fan of CCI primers and use them when I can. If not I buy Winchester primers and I change nothing else in the load. Bullet types don't matter either when choosing a primer. Small primer cases use small pistol primers and large primer cases use large pistol primers. It's that simple.

I have used CCI, Win, Rem and Fed primers along with Wolf, Tula, MagTech, S&B, PMC and maybe a few others. I like the American made primers best but the others really never gave me a problem.

BE WARNED, over the past few years there have been more and more 45 ACP cases made with small primer holes so be careful when sorting 45 ACP brass.

 

[gamestalker]

The type of Primer needed, is generally determined by the type of powder used. And almost always the data will provide you with that information. For instance, I load a lot of .357 mag. and use H110 / 296, which requires a magnum primer, as indicated in the published data.

Full throttle.40 cal and 9mm Longshot loads, and +P 38 spcl Longshot loads do just fine with standard primers, though I've used magnums a couple of times when I ran out of standard. And I've never come across any published data that indicated a magnum primer was used, or was required.

But as far as the type bullet being the deciding factor, I've never come across that before. But who knows, maybe someone will come along and learn me somethin new.

GS

 

[howlnmad]

Years ago I did the big primer search. Not any more. I buy SP, LP, SR and LR. The only other primers I buy are CCI 41 for my AR loads.

 

[mikemyers]

To 'gamestalker' and to 'ArchAngelCD' - you guys are telling me two very different things. Either primers MAY need to be matched to powders, or NOT.

I've been told to look at many books (presumably meaning many web pages) for information. If there is one preferred place to look these things up, please post it here.

'Rule3', it's logical that anyone posting charts like this would post their own products. So, it's logical that any company controlled by ATK would get preferential treatment, but that's not a bad idea - they undoubtedly trust their own products the most, not to mention that ATK benefits more from promoting their products more than those from the competition.


I should add that I had no idea of any of this until last night - I thought there were just these two types of primers, one larger than the other..... and until I found it posted somewhere, and confirmed by ArchAngelCD, I thought all 45 ACP cases needed to be the same, implying only one size hole for primers.

Amazing - the more we talk about anything, the more complicated the discussion becomes.....

 

[Blue68f100]

Pistol primers comes in 2 sizes, small, large. Then you have std and Mag. Some powders W296/110 to name one require the Mag primer, while most powders do not. Rifle primers come in 2 sizes but also have some with harder cups to prevent slam fires.

What ArchAngelCD and gamestalker have said is true. It's just a matter of interpreting what they said. The reason to refer to load manuals. Most will tell you when they used a Mag primer. Some will even use a Mag primers on powders not requiring it. This in general will add about 30 fps to the load. Then Win LP is stated for mag or std use to make it more confusing.

Some brass calibers only come in 1 size. But there are several that come it 2 sizes, 45acp and 308. Both can be found in SP or LP.

 

[Rule3]

Mike, there is nothing complicated about primers.

There are:
small pistol
Large pistol
small pistol magnum
large pistol magnum

Same with rifles plus they throw in some Military primers for semi autos but lets not get into those now.

Technically if you gave load data which shows one BRAND of primer and you substitute another brand then you should start at the low end of the load and work up. Any change in a "recipe" changes the whole thing.This is taking into account the small variations (if any) of different brands.

That being said, I do not pay much attention to what brand as I do not load at the maximum so any variation is not gonna be a big difference.

Some powders are hard to ignite (lets say H110/Win 296 so they require a Magnum (more flash) primer,

Companies of course promote/use their own brand as being the best.

I bought a whole bunch of Wolf primers a long time ago in all flavors. I use those and no recipe or load data calls for those!

Here is a old chart of CCI primers, Go to post #12. A small pistol mag primer has more energy than a small rifle primer! At least per this chart.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=732802

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

There are some combinations that need a mag primer, but for most things a standard primer will do just fine. Unique doesn't need a mag primer in any caliber.

So just to touch on something... If I'm using unique powder, any small pistol primer will work well for 357? Just asking because I'm going to start reloading for 357 soon (still slowly buying components) I also plan to shoot those 357 rounds from a rifle as well.

 

[Walkalong]

Yes, match the mag primer to powders that always need one, like W-296/H110.

HS-6 sometimes. ArchAngelCD could be more specific on that one.

Unique in .357 does not need a mag primer, and any brand will do, assuming the revolver has enough oomph to set them off, as some are harder than others. Folks with light springs in their guns like Federals, as they are easy to set off. If no one has messed with the springs, and brand should work.

 

[Rule3]

What will be confusing is Hodgdon online data. If is says magnum they use mag primers regardless of the powder.

I called them to ask about this and they said it was just to be consistent. So per their data if its HP 38 or Win 296 they use a Mag primer even if HP 38 does not need one.

 

[Jim Watson]

.38 Special, .44 Special, and .45 ACP are low to medium pressure cartridges using fast to medium powders.
There is not much call for magnum primers. Speer (CCI family) shows them for some powders, but Lyman does not, even for the same powders.

I am comfortable with any American brand in a stock gun. I use the more sensitive Federal primers in revolvers with action jobs and light mainsprings.

I found Russian made Wolf brand primers to be "hard" and have had three misfires in about 4000 of them. I have not used any other imported primer.

.38 Special takes small pistol primers, .44 Special and MOST .45 ACP take large pistol primers. There are .45s made for small primers. Sort them out and either use small pistol primers or trade them to somebody who does.

 

[Potatohead]

Do you have a good manual?

 

[Rule3]

Do you have a good manual?

Library card?

The interweb has made them obsolete.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The type of Primer needed, is generally determined by the type of powder used. And almost always the data will provide you with that information. For instance, I load a lot of .357 mag. and use H110 / 296, which requires a magnum primer, as indicated in the published data.

Full throttle.40 cal and 9mm Longshot loads, and +P 38 spcl Longshot loads do just fine with standard primers, though I've used magnums a couple of times when I ran out of standard. And I've never come across any published data that indicated a magnum primer was used, or was required.

But as far as the type bullet being the deciding factor, I've never come across that before. But who knows, maybe someone will come along and learn me somethin new.

GS

To 'gamestalker' and to 'ArchAngelCD' - you guys are telling me two very different things. Either primers MAY need to be matched to powders, or NOT.

When I said the primer was not dependent on the powder used I was talking about BRANDS, not if you use a standard or magnum primer. Yes slower ball powders are harder to ignite and a magnum primer should be used but any brand will do just fine. I was not talking about standard or magnum primers, I was talking about brand names.

As for HS-6, you will get a lot of different opinions on standard or magnum primers. I do A LOT of loading with HS-6 and in every cartridge I get much better results with a magnum primer over a standard primer. Today's load manuals will use standard primers for cartridges without magnum in their name. anything called a magnum they use a magnum primer. That doesn't make it right. If you look back to manuals like Speer #10 and others of that era they used to specify the use of a magnum primer with slower harder to ignite ball powders like W296/H110, HS-7, HS-6 and the like.

 

[Potatohead]

Off topic

Library card?

LOL. Yea my wife and I were laughing trying to figure out what that thing was in the library that you used to find the book you were looking for, card catalog was our guess..(?)

 

[Rule3]

LOL. Yea my wife and I were laughing trying to figure out what that thing was in the library that you used to find the book you were looking for, card catalog was our guess..(?)

Yes the good old Dewy Decimal System you could use the cards to find by name, subject, author. Now it's all on the puter

Working for the Govt we went "paperless" turns out we ended up with twice the amount of paper as all scanned documents no one could read on the monitor so we printed them anyway!!.

I still rather read a book than stare at a tablet or something.

The issue of manuals is not to memorize them it is simply to know where to look up and FIND information.