Primer swipe on reloads

[ballman6711]

I went shooting a week or so ago and finally had a chance to look at my brass. It appears I have a bit of primer swipe on some of my reloads, but not all. I know this can be caused by a dirty firing pin or channel, or a weak firing pin spring. So I pulled the firing pin out and the pin and channel were clean. Not sure when I last replaced the spring, so that could be part or all of the issue.

The other thing I've read/researched is that my loads could be on the hot side.

This was the load I was using:

New Starline brass, lubed and sized as usual
185 gr Acme swc (advertised and measured at .452, weighed a few at 185ish gr)
6.0 gr VV N-320 (every charge weighed on balance beam, beam is checked for level before every session)
Winchester large pistol primers
COL at 1.247 - 1.248

Gun is a Kimber Ultra 1911 45acp, 3" barrel, with over 10K rounds (probably about 12K) that I bought new, so no Bubba smithing or +p rounds. I have changed the recoil spring twice, and have replaced the firing pin spring at the same time. Springs are from Wolff Springs.

I feel like I may be in +p territory, which I don't want for this gun. I also know I got the charge weight from a book or Vihtavouri's online data, but can't remember which and can't find it now.

If anyone has any thoughts I would appreciate hearing them. Also if anyone could run the info through Quickload I would be very curious what it says about the pressure, although they didn't feel excessive, and ejected the brass normally.

Thanks all.

chris

 

[DukeConnor]

When I was playing with 45 super I had the same problem. It was recomended I get a heaver firing pin spring. I never went any further with it.

 

[ballman6711]

The firing pin spring is the extra power Wolff spring. Or at least it's supposed to be. I can't say for certain, but I think it has about 2500 rounds on it.

chris

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Never heard of primer swipe. What is it?

 

[LiveLife]

primer swipe on some of my reloads, but not all. I know this can be caused by a dirty firing pin or channel, or a weak firing pin spring. So I pulled the firing pin out and the pin and channel were clean. Not sure when I last replaced the spring, so that could be part or all of the issue.

If you get primer swipe with factory ammo, it's caused by your pistol. If you only get primer swipe with your reloads, I would look at the reloads.

Never heard of primer swipe. What is it?

Firing pin/striker tip doesn't retract enough before case rim slides down the breech wall face with the barrel in "locked breech action" pistols and firing pin/striker tip "swipes" primer cup.

My Taurus PT145 did it (But it sure fired the Tula SP primers with harder cups 100% in SP 45ACP cases that my Glock 17/19/26/22/23/27 failed to ignite reliably When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade )

 

[CQB45ACP]

Never heard of primer swipe. What is it?

Glad you were the one who asked! Now they don’t know I didn’t know either.

 

[ballman6711]

@LiveLife Mine aren't that bad, but are noticeable. I'll take a pic or two to show it. It's pretty minor, but I still don't like it.

I also hadn't thought to try factory ammo to compare it with. I didn't have any with me the other day when I shot these. In fact, I shot several different types of my reloads, and found swipes on other pieces of brass as well as the VV loads in the Starline brass. Makes me start to think about replacing the spring again.

This is why I like this forum so much.

chris

 

[CQB45ACP]

If you get primer swipe with factory ammo, I would consider replacing firing pin spring. If you only get primer swipe with your reloads, I would look at the reloads.


Firing pin/striker tip doesn't retract enough before extractor/ejector start moving the case and "swipes" primer cup.

My Taurus PT145 did it (But it sure fired the Tula SP primers with harder cups 100% in SP 45ACP cases that my Glock 17/19/26/22/23/27 failed to ignite reliably When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade )

Let’s say it’s only with the reloads…what is it a symptom of if not the spring?

 

[ms6852]

I would decrease your load at 10% increments or less until the swipe is gone. I believe that a heavier spring could cause more cratering or puncturing the primer...just my 2¢.

 

[CQB45ACP]

@LiveLife Mine aren't that bad, but are noticeable. I'll take a pic or two to show it. It's pretty minor, but I still don't like it.

I also hadn't thought to try factory ammo to compare it with. I didn't have any with me the other day when I shot these. In fact, I shot several different types of my reloads, and found swipes on other pieces of brass as well as the VV loads in the Starline brass. Makes me start to think about replacing the spring again.

This is why I like this forum so much.

chris

I have three 1911s with well over 10000 rounds each—all with original FP springs. One’s a Baer government model 45ACP, one’s an Alchemy government model 45ACP, the other a Wilson government model 9mm.

I think I have seen the stripe too but thought it was on someone else’s brass I had picked up. Now I’m worried.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I would decrease your load at 10% increments or less until the swipe is gone.

So it’s a sign of too stout a load? (If not a bad spring that is.)

 

[ms6852]

So it’s a sign of too stout a load? (If not a bad spring that is.)

It could be, but one way to rule that out and easier to accomplish then changing springs is to drop your load incrementally to see if that solves the swipe. If not do as recommended above.

Also the material used in the primer can be very soft and a combination of higher pressure with extraction taking place could cause that scar to the side of the primer. Unless you have fired several thousands of rounds I personally do not see that the spring could be the cause. I have a few 1911's with over 10,000 rounds fired on each of them and I never had that issue until I decided to reload a hotter load for a pig hunt.

 

[CQB45ACP]

It could be, but one way to rule that out and easier to accomplish then changing springs is to drop your load incrementally to see if that solves the swipe. If not do as recommended above.

I’m inclined to believe the ones I’ve personally seen are fellow shooters brass that I’ve picked up. I say that because: 1) that’s what I want to believe, 2) I seldom if ever load anything near the upper limits. Changing springs is a piece of cake (I remove em to clean pistol anyway) but I’ll have to order some.

 

[ballman6711]

So here are is a pic. The Starline brass is almost certainly mine, the PMC brass could be someone else's that I picked up while at the range. If the PMC brass was my reloads, and it could be, it wasn't from these loads and would almost 100% point to my spring needing replaced.



chris

 

[CQB45ACP]

It could be, but one way to rule that out and easier to accomplish then changing springs is to drop your load incrementally to see if that solves the swipe. If not do as recommended above.

Also the material used in the primer can be very soft and a combination of higher pressure with extraction taking place could cause that scar to the side of the primer. Unless you have fired several thousands of rounds I personally do not see that the spring could be the cause. I have a few 1911's with over 10,000 rounds fired on each of them and I never had that issue until I decided to reload a hotter load for a pig hunt.

Yes I have 3 each with over 10K rounds.

 

[ms6852]

So here are is a pic. The Starline brass is almost certainly mine, the PMC brass could be someone else's that I picked up while at the range. If the PMC brass was my reloads, and it could be, it wasn't from these loads and would almost 100% point to my spring needing replaced.

View attachment 1107668

chris

Do keep us posted and let us know if changing the springs solved your issues. Thanks for posting.

 

[ballman6711]

I have three 1911s with well over 10000 rounds each—all with original FP springs. One’s a Baer government model 45ACP, one’s an Alchemy government model 45ACP, the other a Wilson government model 9mm.

I think I have seen the stripe too but thought it was on someone else’s brass I had picked up. Now I’m worried.

You can mark your reloads, and after recovering them know they are yours, and then you'll know for certain that the swipe is coming from your gun. Colored sharpie, nail polish, etc...

In my case, I know that Starline does not sell loaded ammo, so these cases are from handloads. And since nobody else was shooting a pistol that day, they are most likely mine.

chris

 

[ballman6711]

Do keep us posted and let us know if changing the springs solved your issues. Thanks for posting.

I will keep everyone posted about what I find. If I can find the time I will go to the range tomorrow with these reloads and some factory ammo. I may take another 1911 as well to try these in, that will help eliminate or prove the spring is the issue.

chris

 

[LiveLife]

Glad you were the one who asked! Now they don’t know I didn’t know either.

According to my wife, I still know "nothing" ... ... And she "corrects" me all the time (Sadly, she is often correct)

So it’s a sign of too stout a load?

Not necessarily as PT145 did it from day one regardless of the load (Cases pictured were shot with 200 gr LSWC and 4.0 gr of Promo, which is light target load). My M&P45 did it also out of the box but with very light swipe.

My railed Sig 1911 XO did not after 12,000 rounds and my match Glock 17 did not after 120,000 rounds (And with no parts breakage other than mag spring/RSA replacements ... Gotta love Glocks ) so it may not be worn spring or dirty firing pin channel.

So here are is a pic. The Starline brass is almost certainly mine, the PMC brass could be someone else's that I picked up while at the range.

Firing pin indents are definitely different between Starline and PMC primer cups so they were shot in different pistols.

To me, if that amount of swipe is the case, I would not worry about it.

I think shooting factory ammo may be the best test as if swipe continues, then it's the pistol and not the reloads. And if swipe only occurs with reloads (or certain reloads), then it's likely caused by the reload (or certain reloads).

 

[Blue68f100]

I went shooting a week or so ago and finally had a chance to look at my brass. It appears I have a bit of primer swipe on some of my reloads, but not all. I know this can be caused by a dirty firing pin or channel, or a weak firing pin spring. So I pulled the firing pin out and the pin and channel were clean. Not sure when I last replaced the spring, so that could be part or all of the issue.

The other thing I've read/researched is that my loads could be on the hot side.

This was the load I was using:

New Starline brass, lubed and sized as usual
185 gr Acme swc (advertised and measured at .452, weighed a few at 185ish gr)
6.0 gr VV N-320 (every charge weighed on balance beam, beam is checked for level before every session)
Winchester large pistol primers
COL at 1.247 - 1.248

Gun is a Kimber Ultra 1911 45acp, 3" barrel, with over 10K rounds (probably about 12K) that I bought new, so no Bubba smithing or +p rounds. I have changed the recoil spring twice, and have replaced the firing pin spring at the same time. Springs are from Wolff Springs.

I feel like I may be in +p territory, which I don't want for this gun. I also know I got the charge weight from a book or Vihtavouri's online data, but can't remember which and can't find it now.

If anyone has any thoughts I would appreciate hearing them. Also if anyone could run the info through Quickload I would be very curious what it says about the pressure, although they didn't feel excessive, and ejected the brass normally.

Thanks all.

chris

Kimber recommends changing the recoil springs every 3000 rounds. Actually the outer at 3000, and inner & outer at 6000. I have a UCII and checked the spring pressure at 3k rounds. The outer had dropped from 18 to 12, the inner was down to 14. So I made the decision to change them both at 3k and the FP spring. I bought the springs from Wolf and rebuilt the assembly. I have 2 so I swap one out then rebuild the other for a spare..

 

[Swampman]

I feel like I may be in +p territory, which I don't want for this gun. I also know I got the charge weight from a book or Vihtavouri's online data, but can't remember which and can't find it now.

I found this data in my 2014 VV manual. From what it shows, I doubt you're in +P territory with your load. They don't specify a primer other than "Large Pistol" so I guess it's possible that the magnum rated Winchester primers might kick up the pressure a bit.


Good luck!

 

[deadeye dick]

If you get primer swipe with factory ammo, I would consider replacing firing pin spring. If you only get primer swipe with your reloads, I would look at the reloads.


Firing pin/striker tip doesn't retract enough before extractor/ejector start moving the case and "swipes" primer cup.

My Taurus PT145 did it (But it sure fired the Tula SP primers with harder cups 100% in SP 45ACP cases that my Glock 17/19/26/22/23/27 failed to ignite reliably When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade )

Mine look exactly like that. S&W 9C. Been like that since i bought it new about 12 years ago. Many thousands of rounds thru it. Never gave it a thought. Now i will not sleep tonight.

 

[LiveLife]

Now i will not sleep tonight.

Oh, I bet you will ...

< Waving hand at deadeye > ... You are getting sleepy ... You are getting sleeepy ... You are getting sleeeepy ... Zzzzzzz *Snort* zzzzzzz

 

[rdnktrkr]

I've seen that before from brass that was given to me from a competition, I thought it was a special firing pin so this post has taught me something and next time I head to the range I will be looking closer at my primers.

Does this only happen on pistol brass?

 

[ballman6711]

I've seen that before from brass that was given to me from a competition, I thought it was a special firing pin so this post has taught me something and next time I head to the range I will be looking closer at my primers.

Does this only happen on pistol brass?

As far as I know it only happens on semi-auto brass. Don't think I've ever seen it on rifle brass, but honestly don't recall looking for it either.

chris