TexasShooter59
Member
And, you can get unused primers back into the tray pretty easily without touching them.
Primers in a jar?
- Thread starter gilgsn
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medalguy
Member
Well, here's what the experts say. This is from the SAAMI book on storage of primers. Seems like I have posted this several times recently but it's good to read it once in a while:
Properties of Primers
Properties of particular importance to the dealer and user
of primers are as follows:
1. Primers may explode if subjected to mishandling.
Explosions may be caused by friction and by percussion,
such as hammering, pounding, dropping or bullet impact.
Heating by fire, static electricity, sparks, hot tobacco
ashes, or other unspecified abuses may also cause
primers to explode.
2. If primers are loose or in bulk, having contact one
with another, one primer exploding can, and usually will,
cause a violent, sympathetic explosion of all primers so
situated. In other words, one primer exploding for any reason
under these circumstances will normally cause all of
the primers to explode in one violent blast.
Handling of Primers
Primers do explode. This is the purpose for which they
have been designed. They demand the respect and careful
handling due any device containing explosives.
I would very strongly suggest that it might be prudent to follow the guidelines stated here for your continued longevity.
Properties of Primers
Properties of particular importance to the dealer and user
of primers are as follows:
1. Primers may explode if subjected to mishandling.
Explosions may be caused by friction and by percussion,
such as hammering, pounding, dropping or bullet impact.
Heating by fire, static electricity, sparks, hot tobacco
ashes, or other unspecified abuses may also cause
primers to explode.
2. If primers are loose or in bulk, having contact one
with another, one primer exploding can, and usually will,
cause a violent, sympathetic explosion of all primers so
situated. In other words, one primer exploding for any reason
under these circumstances will normally cause all of
the primers to explode in one violent blast.
Handling of Primers
Primers do explode. This is the purpose for which they
have been designed. They demand the respect and careful
handling due any device containing explosives.
I would very strongly suggest that it might be prudent to follow the guidelines stated here for your continued longevity.
BeerSleeper
Member
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Time to invent a fake myth and submit it to mythbusters. Something, anything, that will prompt them to drop a jar of 1000 primers from a sufficient height, onto a surface such as concrete.
I'm certainly not doing it, but I'd love to see it safely from the couch side of the TV.
I'm certainly not doing it, but I'd love to see it safely from the couch side of the TV.
Priming compound doesn't need to be in a closed container to build up pressure. It's a high explosive. If you pour a pile of gunpowder on the ground and light it, it burns. If you put a bunch of priming compound pellets in a loose pile and lit it, it would all blow up at the same time. More pellets = bigger explosion.
A sympathetic explosion of a 100 primers would be dangerous enough without the primer cups, anvils, and glass shrapnel. Just the pressure wave alone could blow your fingers off if you were holding them in your hand. A firecracker can do it. 100 primers would, too.
Someone on here has a nice picture of a steel rod stuck through his ceiling from a primer explosion.
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Master Blaster
Member
You know it never ceases to amaze me that this question will come up at least once or twice a year. Its a really bad idea, very dangerous. Besides how would you handle them easily into a flip tray, or a loading device from a jar. Sometimes I think there is a Chinese troll in Bejing that makes these posts in order to subvert us reloaders into a dangerous practice.
The companies that make primers know what they are doing the packaging is designed to safely store, and handle the most dangerous component used in reloading. The only time that primers should come out of their factory packaging is when you are going to reload with them.
The companies that make primers know what they are doing the packaging is designed to safely store, and handle the most dangerous component used in reloading. The only time that primers should come out of their factory packaging is when you are going to reload with them.
ReloaderFred
Member
Putting primers in a glass jar, or for that matter any other bulk container, will result in a hand grenade, and will likely result in some serious injury or death. The explosion of primers by the employee shaking the container was in the CCI plant many years ago.
When I attend the SHOT Show in Las Vegas, I take old packaging and give it to the assorted manufacturers for their company displays. I took one of the old wooden tray primer containers to the CCI booth a couple of years ago and they wouldn't even touch it until I assured them there were no primers in it, as they stated that packaging was very dangerous. When I told them I still had primers packaged that way, they cautioned about handling them and I assured them I wasn't going to get careless and blow myself up. They're very paranoid about primer packaging at CCI and Federal, and with good reason.
Leave the primers in their original packaging and use them as intended.
Hope this helps.
Fred
When I attend the SHOT Show in Las Vegas, I take old packaging and give it to the assorted manufacturers for their company displays. I took one of the old wooden tray primer containers to the CCI booth a couple of years ago and they wouldn't even touch it until I assured them there were no primers in it, as they stated that packaging was very dangerous. When I told them I still had primers packaged that way, they cautioned about handling them and I assured them I wasn't going to get careless and blow myself up. They're very paranoid about primer packaging at CCI and Federal, and with good reason.
Leave the primers in their original packaging and use them as intended.
Hope this helps.
Fred
The statement was that no pressure could build in a broken jar. It amazes me how little reloaders know about what they are useing & how scared they are of what they don't know. Then they pass it as gospel. If you hold a firecracker on a open hand it will probably sting but wrap your fingers around it & you may loose them.
jcwit
member
OMG! Well we now know what to expect of the CCI's sales dept.
Please, Please, Please, don't let ANY of this info into the hands of Janet Napolitano and her organization.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
A jar of primers does not have to be contained to blow you up.
As has already been stated several times, it amounts to an IED bomb or hand grenade.
And not due to the glass fragments alone.
The blast from that much primer compound is powerful enough to blow your feet off.
Not to mention several hundred primer cups & anvils turning into high speed shrapnel with a blast radius of several yards.
There is no possible way you could avoid being severely injured or killed if a jar of primers went off on the floor at your feet.
rc
X-Rap
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I really can't imagine why one would want to pack primers in anything but their og packaging but I also don't see a mass detonation in a jar anymore than in the box. It would take quite a chain of events, and even then the jar would have been broken upon initial impact so any schrapnel dangers really wouldn't exist.
To recap:
Primers contain explosive compounds. Yes, explosive.
If one primer detonates while laying next to others without any protective barrier, the others will detonate as well.
The resulting explosion will send cups, anvils, and in this case, glass shards, at high speed in every direction.
If you are in the vicinity, you will be injured, or even killed.
Primers are packaged the way they are for a very good reason.
It is unsafe and unwise to pour a bunch of primers together in any kind of container, much less glass.
In other words, it's just plain dangerous!
Primers contain explosive compounds. Yes, explosive.
If one primer detonates while laying next to others without any protective barrier, the others will detonate as well.
The resulting explosion will send cups, anvils, and in this case, glass shards, at high speed in every direction.
If you are in the vicinity, you will be injured, or even killed.
Primers are packaged the way they are for a very good reason.
It is unsafe and unwise to pour a bunch of primers together in any kind of container, much less glass.
In other words, it's just plain dangerous!
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
People still don't seem to get this.
Here is what a single flying .223 primer will do to a section of furnace duct sheet metal.
Tell me there is no shrapnel danger if a whole bunch of them go off between your legs!
rc
X-Rap
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I think this is a perfect job for the myth busters, I have never seen or heard (first person account) of primer detonation from anything but a great deal of pressure or impact.They are very stable or we would be having more AD's in guns or severely injured re loaders. I am not saying they don't have inherent hazards but they are very stable.
For the myth busters I would like to see a pickle jar full dropped from a second story window and a reloading bench as well as have a 1000 pack driven over by a UPS truck.
Should be an easy job even for one of us adventuresome people here.
For the myth busters I would like to see a pickle jar full dropped from a second story window and a reloading bench as well as have a 1000 pack driven over by a UPS truck.
Should be an easy job even for one of us adventuresome people here.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
It was an "ammo in a fire" cook-off test I did some time ago.
Rounds in an aluminum tube with sheet metal duct at both ends.
I heated the tube with a torch until they popped.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7001165&postcount=15
rc
Rounds in an aluminum tube with sheet metal duct at both ends.
I heated the tube with a torch until they popped.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7001165&postcount=15
rc
longdayjake
Member
Loose primers in a container of some kind really is a hand grenade. Don't do it. I recently did some experimenting with primers and all I can say is that it is amazing that such little things can do that much damage.
RustyFN
Member
Let us know how it turns out and don't forget to take picteres.
Yes they are. They are hard to set off. It takes heat, flame, or a blow. They are very safe when used correctly.
But to put a bunch together and store them as the OP suggested, is just plain stupid. Too much potential for serious damage if something goes wrong.
sugarmaker
Member
Read the warning on the box.
I don't know if this is funny or sad.
RC
I would like to hear more details about your test. Was these load rounds or primer only? It also seems they were contained & directed. How far from the detonation was the impact? No doubt it could sting but those marks in that thin metal so there is no danger of death.
Short lesson in explosives: Slower pushes farther.
If you want to split a rock you would drill down the center & use a fast charge. If you want to send pieces a long ways you use a slow charge.
Primers use a very fast charge.
What about the way percussion caps are packed?
RC
I would like to hear more details about your test. Was these load rounds or primer only? It also seems they were contained & directed. How far from the detonation was the impact? No doubt it could sting but those marks in that thin metal so there is no danger of death.
Short lesson in explosives: Slower pushes farther.
If you want to split a rock you would drill down the center & use a fast charge. If you want to send pieces a long ways you use a slow charge.
Primers use a very fast charge.
What about the way percussion caps are packed?
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I had a friend years ago who was setting at the kitchen table in his underwear reading the morning paper.
While drying a cookie sheet full of just washed .38 Spl cases in the oven.
One was primed, it went off, and buried a primer cup between the bones in the top of his foot deep enough they had to cut it out at the ER.
And he was setting clear across the small kitchen from the stove.
And it's not just fast. It's a detonation.
That will send each primer cup & anvil flying at supersonic speed until air resistance slows them down several feet away.
rc
While drying a cookie sheet full of just washed .38 Spl cases in the oven.
One was primed, it went off, and buried a primer cup between the bones in the top of his foot deep enough they had to cut it out at the ER.
And he was setting clear across the small kitchen from the stove.
That is what everyone is trying to say.
And it's not just fast. It's a detonation.
That will send each primer cup & anvil flying at supersonic speed until air resistance slows them down several feet away.
rc
I read a story about a bunch of primers that went off in Dillon primer feed tube. Have a read. These little guys should not be taken lightly.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=495909
If you read down through the story, Grant shows a picture of his hand after removal of the bandages (post #105). Fortunately Grant is okay, far as I know.
The story is a nice reminder about complacency, if one still needs a reminder, and Grant apparently followed good common sense rules.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=495909
If you read down through the story, Grant shows a picture of his hand after removal of the bandages (post #105). Fortunately Grant is okay, far as I know.
The story is a nice reminder about complacency, if one still needs a reminder, and Grant apparently followed good common sense rules.
X-Rap
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Primers in a tube no matter if they are heated or impacted would certainly be prone to mass detonation and the blast would be contained until the tube was destroyed. I don't see much to argue with on that point much like one stuck in a primmer pocket until it is detonated.
My point is there has to be a cause for detonation and impact, pressure or heat is what does it. Now if the jar in question is hit with a sledge hammer or thrown in a fire all bets are off but until I see more reason to believe I will say that hitting hitting against each other from a height of 3 or 4 feet probably wont bring on the zombie apocalypse.
I still say putting them in a jar is a bad idea on so many levels, I just don't thing they are as bad as some are saying.
My case in point would be the way BP Caps are sold and carried by millions of shooters. I'm not sure of the difference in composition but they certainly make a bang.
My point is there has to be a cause for detonation and impact, pressure or heat is what does it. Now if the jar in question is hit with a sledge hammer or thrown in a fire all bets are off but until I see more reason to believe I will say that hitting hitting against each other from a height of 3 or 4 feet probably wont bring on the zombie apocalypse.
I still say putting them in a jar is a bad idea on so many levels, I just don't thing they are as bad as some are saying.
My case in point would be the way BP Caps are sold and carried by millions of shooters. I'm not sure of the difference in composition but they certainly make a bang.
1SOW
Member
The fact that posters are downplaying the possibilty/potential of a dramatic explosion with storage of loose primers in a sealed glass jar (or ANY container) shows an unbelievable and DANGEROUS naivety.
You can flip a coin and throw "heads" 20 X in a row and the odds have not changed on the 21st throw.
If there are a couple thousand primers in that jar, and you drop it from three feet to a hard surface, it may not go off. If you do this 10 X, they may not go off.
On the other hand "they" don't all need to be detonated. If only "ONE" primer is hit so it explodes, they will "ALL" go off. The chain reaction is exponentially faster than the fastest reloading powder.
Any adequate heat source, static electricity or any other heat source, that touches the primer formula will also set them all off.
I have a post here somewhere, where I intentionally (and safely) touched heat to a primer in an open metal container. The "instantaneous bang" was surprisingly loud.
It should also be noted that FED primers contain a 'minute' amount of nitroglycerin which adds sensitivity to impact. (verifiable on the FED MSDS site for content)
New reloaders will read this thread. Don't "teach" potentially dangerous practices.
.
You can flip a coin and throw "heads" 20 X in a row and the odds have not changed on the 21st throw.
If there are a couple thousand primers in that jar, and you drop it from three feet to a hard surface, it may not go off. If you do this 10 X, they may not go off.
On the other hand "they" don't all need to be detonated. If only "ONE" primer is hit so it explodes, they will "ALL" go off. The chain reaction is exponentially faster than the fastest reloading powder.
Any adequate heat source, static electricity or any other heat source, that touches the primer formula will also set them all off.
I have a post here somewhere, where I intentionally (and safely) touched heat to a primer in an open metal container. The "instantaneous bang" was surprisingly loud.
It should also be noted that FED primers contain a 'minute' amount of nitroglycerin which adds sensitivity to impact. (verifiable on the FED MSDS site for content)
New reloaders will read this thread. Don't "teach" potentially dangerous practices.
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