Study of 4 kinds of primer and bullet sealer

[Decoy80]

Folks I loaded 200 9mm cartridges on 12-12-16. all of the cases were already primed so I sealed them as you would on ammo bought loaded. I put sealer around the inside of the cases then seated the bullets. One at a time of course. I used 4 substances available to me from 8 bucks for one half ounce Markron primer and bullet sealer the highest, next Mr. Color model car paint about $3.50 for a little jar second in price ,Broadway high shine nail polish from the dollar store about 2 bucks and last Wet&Wild shine nail polish I snagged from my wifes stash. I use CCI small pistol primers. I got 4 pint mason jars ,rings and lids and put the tray of 50 of each in the jars and labled them with sealer and date. I filled all of the jars over half full of water submerging the loaded sealed ammo. On 12-26-16 I took a spoon and one jar at a time removed 5 rounds and fired them. Being afraid of wet powder and a squib load I took the time to clear the gun and visually look to make sure it wasnt obstructed every shot. All 4 sealers did good and all fired just like they hadnt been diving over a week. I put the jars in a ammo can and didnt have time when it would cross my mind until yesterday 2-4-2017 Once again I fished 5 from each jar and wiped them off good they are growing a funk on them now. This time I had a failure to fire and it was a MR. Color sealed bullet. The other 19 went downrange. I went into the house and pulled the bullet on the failure. The sealer failed to keep the primer dry as the powder was as dry as could be. I have some pictures on my phone and will attempt to put some up if anyone is interested. If I can Id like to repeat the process every couple of weeks until the bullets all are shot or fail to fire. If anyone is interested I will update the results each time. I will need Walkalongs blessing in order to do it of course.

 

[kingmt]

What about your control? Did you do one with nothing on it? Another with at least one container with factory loads would be insightful.

How do you know the primer is wet instead of another problem? Did you see water? Did you try to set the primer off after removing it?

The primers are already sealed in their cups so it would have gotten through two sealers to kill the primer.

 

[Decoy80]

What about your control? Did you do one with nothing on it? Another with at least one container with factory loads would be insightful.

How do you know the primer is wet instead of another problem? Did you see water? Did you try to set the primer off after removing it?

The primers are already sealed in their cups so it would have gotten through two sealers to kill the primer.

The primer had a pretty indent in it so I knew it had failed. I pulled the bullet as I thought it had leaked aroundhe bullet soaking everything. When the powder was dry as the day I threw the charge It was by process of elimation the primer failed. when sealing primers occasionally one will blow a bubble or bubbles and I set it aside and after time for it to dry good reapply maybe one or maybe two percent do this. lots of times you might do two or three trays of fifty andthe next tray has two or three. When i get through with this test i will put sealer in the primer pockets and seat them with a handprimer. thanks for your thoughts as i posted about this seeking more ideas. edit I havent deprimed the cartrige but will go in a few minutes to th shop place it on the anvil and give the case a good smack with a 4 pound hammer. We will know if it will fire shortly and i will update when i get back on after this thing charges back up. Thanks for the suggestion if it will that will surley make it happen.

 

[RandyP]

You planning on combining shooting with scuba diving sometime soon? If so Glocks seem to work OK under water. If not, then I suspect most reloads have little need for extra sealing of bullet or primer. None of the thousands and thousands of mine have anyway, they all have happily gone bang.

That said, if it makes you happy? Giddy up! What pleases you changes the taste of my corn flakes not at all.

 

[Havok7416]

Why do you need Walkalong's permission to update first of all?

Secondly, this has been more or less done here already. Do you plan on keeping ammo submerged? If the answer is no, then this is testing for a highly improbable event. Even if you were to submerge ammo while hunting, etc. you would be facing a very tiny amount of ammo exposed to this. Personally, I would rather just dispose of a few rounds if this happened. All my ammo cans have a gasket on them, so sustained water exposure in my case would be pretty limited. Looks like Randy beat me to it anyway.

 

[kingmt]

Give them a break. Everyone should have a hobby & if this is what they want theirs to be so be it. Most of what we talk about in here has already been talked about & a good portion of it is the week before. Sometimes it has a little different twist but not usually. & Research is always better if it's studied & tested by more & more people to rule out unseen variables. If your not interested you don't have to look.

 

[Decoy80]

Why do you need Walkalong's permission to update first of all?

Secondly, this has been more or less done here already. Do you plan on keeping ammo submerged? If the answer is no, then this is testing for a highly improbable event. Even if you were to submerge ammo while hunting, etc. you would be facing a very tiny amount of ammo exposed to this. Personally, I would rather just dispose of a few rounds if this happened. All my ammo cans have a gasket on them, so sustained water exposure in my case would be pretty limited. Looks like Randy beat me to it anyway.

I need to learn how to search better as I looked for a thread on a primer and bullet sealer test and didnt find results. I would like to read how and what was tested like this. I wasnt trying to top an older thread of such a test as surely it probably would have save me the trouble. Markron guarntees their sealer properly applied for30 days submerged.

 

[Havok7416]

I wasn't suggesting that you were trying to top anything or that you should or shouldn't do it. As kingmt mentioned above, if you feel you need or want to test this there is no problem with that. If you search the forum I am sure there have been a few tests of this nature posted here, I just can't recall the thread names.

Here is one: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/primer-sealer.557151/
and another: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/noob-primer-sealer.792901/

I just typed the word sealer in the search bar and a whole slew came up if that's what you were hoping to find. Good luck!

 

[Walkalong]

Sounds like a fun exercise. Did you seal the bullet as well?

 

[Decoy80]

I wasn't suggesting that you were trying to top anything or that you should or shouldn't do it. As kingmt mentioned above, if you feel you need or want to test this there is no problem with that. If you search the forum I am sure there have been a few tests of this nature posted here, I just can't recall the thread names.

Here is one: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/primer-sealer.557151/
and another: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/noob-primer-sealer.792901/

I just typed the word sealer in the search bar and a whole slew came up if that's what you were hoping to find. Good luck!

Thanks I just came back to the house with definitive results. First I took a 4 pound shop hammer and on the anvil gave the ftf a good smack. it flattened the head of the case nicely and some of the yellow primer compound came out. It was definitely wet and didnt fire. i have a plastic bin I put screwups in and found a WCC case primed with the crimp not removed and primer deformed. It gave a nice report with about half the force applied to the wet dud. Thanks for the search info I will make use of it and every time I get on here I gain information learning by reading the members posts.

 

[Decoy80]

Sounds like a fun exercise. Did you seal the bullet as well?

Yes They were already primed and i followed Markrons instructions on sealing loaded ammo on the primers. The inside of the case rim I applied all the way around and then seated the bullet. I spent some time seating 200 bullets using that method ,also per the Markron instructions

 

[Havok7416]

Definitely, there is a ton to learn here. I have posted numerous tests on a couple subjects myself. Some attacked my results, but I felt I needed/wanted to put the info out there and I still don't feel like I did anyone a disservice. If nothing else the information is now available to those that seek it.

 

[Decoy80]

The Markron primer and bullet sealer comes in a half ounce bottle with instructions ,warranty and a toothpick, its about 8 bucks plus shipping. I also wanted to see if cheaper easier to get stuff would work as well using Markrons method of application. It smelled like fingernail polish( acetone ) but was thinner. I thinned the fingernail polish I used to about the same as best I could. The Mr. Color model car paint I found on eBay and in 3 weeks it came from China. I didnt thin it with acetone as it didnt smell like it.

 

[mstreddy]

Decoy,
While I don't think I would have a need at this time to seal my ammo, I find your test interesting. As someone mentioned, the control group idea would have been value added from the empirical study perspective and it would have given you a further point of comparison.

One of the things I absolutely love about our shooting, reloading, and related hobbies is that there is a very broad range of interests for any of us to pursue. I read a lot of the posts in this forum from the "educational" perspective. I like to see what others have done, tested, created, even though it may not be part of my "curriculum".

The fact that you are testing it yourself, even though the manufacturer claims it will work, and others have tested something similar in the past, proves to YOU, that YOUR methods either work "as advertised" or don't based on YOUR results.

I am a big fan of the Box o' truth site. They set out to shoot and test theories that many perpetuate without actually having any tests. I like that line of reasoning. I've done a few shooting tests myself and the knowledge I gained from actually putting rounds through some different materials, or not, was enlightening.

So, test on! But, we won't believe a thing you say, unless you have pictures!

 

[fguffey]

If I was involved I would save time and trips to the range, I would weight the loaded ammo and then place the ammo in a container of water with a vacuum. If the cases leaked weight would be added and if the vacuum container was clear like glass I would not have to weight because of the bubbles.

F. Guffey

 

[Decoy80]

I have some pictures but they are on my phone. This oldd tablet knows my password i cant remember it and must go through the trouble and willl forget it as well. I will make an effort to put some pictures up per your intrest in them. After a fello member ,not a newbie like me explained how to search for previous threads on the subject Ive read what several others have done on the same subject. Im certainly an expert on handloading or match shooting. I did hit 24 of 24 with the Colt M16 at 400 meters and made expert with the 1911 and the M3 grease gun from 79 thru 85 and got paid to do that. Im older cant see as good ( 15\15 ) they told me at Fort Knox I had never had them checked before and thought 20\20 was perfect. At the range were the only times I enjoyed my Drill Seargents attention when he was boasting about his boy.

 

[Decoy80]

I was trained as a 19 F ie tank driver and after basic always drove for a platoon leader, one summer at Camp Shelby all 16 tanks qualified and some of the guys in another didnt shoot all the belted 308 as it wasnt necessary to once qualified with the 30 cal. Insted of spraying for bugs and having to change barrels on the 30 cal to get rid of it as you couldnt turn ammo back in once checked oūt they threw it in one of the creeks about 7 or 8 k rounds on belts. Aweek or so later after cleaning machine guns removing the breech blocks ,washing the tanks and turning everything Battalion sent word that my companys brass count was too low and the platoon leader, not mine had to find it so it could be fired making the brass happy. Our first searge used his 1911 to shoot cottonmouths while they dove in the south Ms. swampy creek and drug the belts out. They checked out a tank at motor pool,a 30 cal and spare barrels. The battalion CO made them go to the range and it all shot. lots of trouble yes but it was sealed. Im not going to let something I can do when Im loading ammo cause the failure to fire of any ammo I may have to depend on to hunt or save mine or an innocent citizens life. Failure to fire is not acceptable. For some im just going to shoot right away whether rifle or pistol i dont spend the time. for long term storage and caches, yes. Thanks for any information and I will pass what I figure works the best and easiest to get.

 

[FROGO207]

I voted no but with an explanation as you do not have a "sometimes" option. I also will do MY OWN testing for my own experience on something. I did the same thing when checking for accuracy with regards to crimping bullets, or not, for each firearm I own.
Back to topic. I will seal some of my hunting ammo, the stuff that I plan to use in adverse conditions, otherwise no sealing of ammo at the present time. I will set that ammo aside in it's own boxes and mark as such. The thing I have not seen tested is if the ammo that is sealed has a longer shelf life (after many years storage) before it deteriorates. As stated above the need to seal all my ammo would burn up a fair amount of my reloading time otherwise. I rely on using Ziploc freezer bags and putting those in USGI ammo cans for dry storage. IF I decided that I needed some already loaded ammo sealed I would do the same to the bullet end as used on the primer but thin it a bit more before applying and then wipe the excess off to prevent jambs.

 

[reddog81]

I'd be more interested in what happens to a control section i.e. how well regular reloads preform after being submerged.

Sealing bullets and primers would be too much work for me. I'd use ziplock bags and ammo cans if concerned about storing ammo in swamp-like conditions for extended periods of time.

 

[Walkalong]

The inside of the case rim I applied all the way around and then seated the bullet.

Interesting. I would also run a tad around the case mouth after seating.

And by the way, I seal my ammo.........up in an ammo can.

 

[LiveLife]

I got 4 pint mason jars ... put the tray of 50 of each in the jars and ... filled all of the jars over half full of water submerging the loaded sealed ammo. On 12-26-16 ... all fired

yesterday 2-4-2017 ... I had a failure to fire and it was a MR. Color sealed bullet. The other 19 went downrange. I went into the house and pulled the bullet on the failure. The sealer failed to keep the primer dry as the powder was as dry as could be.

I wonder if it was a high seated primer? If it was, it would have fired on the second primer strike.

Priming compounds are sealed with barrier and sealant. They are moisture resistant and very difficult to deactivate, even with solvents. Below are pictures of disassembled primers showing barrier cups - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ts-your-experience.630512/page-2#post-7794378

 

[Decoy80]

Decoy,
While I don't think I would have a need at this time to seal my ammo, I find your test interesting. As someone mentioned, the control group idea would have been value added from the empirical study perspective and it would have given you a further point of comparison.

One of the things I absolutely love about our shooting, reloading, and related hobbies is that there is a very broad range of interests for any of us to pursue. I read a lot of the posts in this forum from the "educational" perspective. I like to see what others have done, tested, created, even though it may not be part of my "curriculum".

The fact that you are testing it yourself, even though the manufacturer claims it will work, and others have tested something similar in the past, proves to YOU, that YOUR methods either work "as advertised" or don't based on YOUR results.

I am a big fan of the Box o' truth site. They set out to shoot and test theories that many perpetuate without actually having any tests. I like that line of reasoning. I've done a few shooting tests myself and the knowledge I gained from actually putting rounds through some different materials, or not, was enlightening.

So, test on! But, we won't believe a thing you say, unless you have pictures!

Here is a picture of the FTF and it shows a good primer strike by the firing pin. The other picture shows it and the reject that the primer fired easily when struck by the hammer with half as much force. I used a 4 pound hammer on my anvil which weighs 153 pounds. BTW I normally don't use a 4 pounder on my anvil. If a two and a half pound hammer doesn't work it means that the metal isn't hot enough.

 

[kingmt]

I would have pulled the primers & smashed them the other way.

 

[Decoy80]

I'd already made the mistake of priming one with a crimp. Under normal circumstances it would have been trashed as further risk is a factor. The wet one I could have used a punch to get it out it was harmless in the wet state. Had I allowed it to chang its state back to dry it possibbly would have discharged. I would consider it unstable once it became dry again. Trash either Mr. Color is not good for sealing primers but being thicker than the other three it may be the best sealer seating bullets. They may be better suited for sealing primers also.PS Markrons 30 day warranty has been here and passed. Their claim is true . I wonder what they put to the test before advertising the winning formula. What if you were hunting a buck,finally got the shot and due to your ammo being unsealed he just bailed not to be seen anymore. Sick yes,sad ,angry wanting to blame anything but yourself , knowing spending a few more minutes of time in your hurry to load more ammo cost you supper and a trophy. I live in a part of our country where man is on top of the food chain. Some folks have predators of men where they live , imigane your rush to load FTF then.

 

[kingmt]

Shoving the primer past a crimped pocket is more likely what killed it. You probably ether broke the pellet or it was sitting where the anvil couldn't reach it. Killing a primer isn't a easy task. It usually takes physical damage.