Private sale, how do I know?

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au_prospector

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I want to buy a handgun from an old friend of mine, private sales intrastate (Georgia). Happens all the time, should not be a problem.

Then I get to thinking... I mean how do I know I am getting a clean firearm? You know, one that wasnt used in a crime eons ago or stolen two dozen years ago and finally ends up in my hands? What if I decide to sell said firearm several years down the road and we open up a can of worms?

All I know is Im buying from a legit good guy, but the the firearm is 40 years old who knows its history?

Any advice, do I have unfounded concerns?
 
There's is really no way you can know. But since it's 40 years old and your buying it from a good guy friend.... I would say it's just something not to worry about.
 
You know, one that wasnt used in a crime eons ago or stolen two dozen years ago and finally ends up in my hands
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And what if it was? Guns aren't registered in GA, so how would anyone, including you, go about proving it? Don't overthink this.
 
Just keep a record of when and from whom you bought it. If it (very unlikely) ever gets tracked down, you can show you are free of any crime (though you'll have to surrender the gun).
 
Yeah you're over thinking it.

If you buy a used gun in a gun shop or pawn shop you're not guaranteed that either. The police confiscate stuff form pawnshops all the time. I know, I've seen it firsthand many times.

If it is a close friend and he's owned it for that long, buy it and don't worry about it.
Even if it was used in a crime, proving it 40 years later wouldn't be possible. The real world isn't like CSI. ;)
 
Yeah I guess I am over thinking it. My buddy is dying and is offloading some of his stuff. At one point in his life he traded guns like kids trade baseball cards. (do they still do that?) Anyway, he cant remember what he did last week let alone where he got this firearm years ago. I am very sad for him. :(

I might just get a pair of old Colt Cobras tomorrow. We settled on a price today!
 
Sorry about your friend. Glad he's spreading the love around instead of having his nice guns buried with him (which I never understood).
 
I used to call the local police station and they would run the number for me to see if it was reported stolen. This was Florida in the '90s.

Mike
 
You're thinking too far into it. Crime guns are normally traded amongst criminals, so I dont worry about it. Much.

Sorry about your friend.
 
Is it really legal?

Is it really legal to buy a handgun from a private party without a purchase permit from the local law enforcement brigade? I have lived in 4 states in the last 20 years and none of them allow such a deal Especially from a different state.
Where is this state- I wanna' move there:confused:
 
s it really legal to buy a handgun from a private party without a purchase permit from the local law enforcement brigade? I have lived in 4 states in the last 20 years and none of them allow such a deal Especially from a different state.
Where is this state- I wanna' move there
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Well you're breaking federal law if both of you aren't residents of the same state, but yes it is generally legal in red states (and a fair number of blues) to buy a handgun from a private party without any government oversight.
 
This is Georgia and yes private handgun purchases are legal. In fact, any given weekend one can walk up to a roadside flea market and find at least one table that has a few firearms including handguns for sale private purchase.
 
total recoil said:
Is it really legal to buy a handgun from a private party without a purchase permit from the local law enforcement brigade? I have lived in 4 states in the last 20 years and none of them allow such a deal Especially from a different state.
Click to expand...
Until about 2010, I'd never heard of a purchase permit, and I'm 45 years old. As long as both buyer and seller are residents of the same state and non-prohibited, it's perfectly legal under federal law. State laws vary.

au_prospector, I agree with the others who say that you're overthinking this. I'm also very sorry to hear that your friend is dying.
 
Arkansas Paul said:
Yeah you're over thinking it.

If you buy a used gun in a gun shop or pawn shop you're not guaranteed that either.
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In TN you are. When you do the background check through TICS, the gun is also run to see if it had ever been reported stolen. If it was, the TBI rolls the local cops to pick up the gun. At my LGS, if you sell or trade a gun to them, they run a gun check before completing the deal to make sure the gun isn't hot.
 
It can go either way even with a FFL transfer. One of my acquaintences had a gun he sold on consignment get used in a homicide several years later. He got a visit from the local PD when the detectives found the weapon and tried tracking it down. The only name the gun was tied to was him as he had sent in a warranty card listing serial number. The FFL couldn't find the paperwork, and the gun wasn't registered in a locale it should have been...this is backwards but the guy ended up in a tight spot for doing what was legal.

Another guy I know had a bad situation pop up when he purchased a gun through a FFL and it was reported stolen several months later when a couple divorced and the wife's 338 that stayed in the dresser drawer was missing after the husband got the boot.

Long story short you need to keep paperwork to support your transaction. A notarized slip saying you purchased the gun at such location on such date from such person with their statement that the gun was not stolen and they have legal right to sell it.
 
In TN you are.
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No you aren't.
You may know if it has ever been reported stolen, that's it.

How would you know if it was used in a crime? Contrary to what people see on tv, they can't dig a bullet out of a guy, run it through a computer and say, "Hey, this came from John Smith's gun."

He asked to know how the gun was never used in a crime, and there is no such method possible.


Is it really legal to buy a handgun from a private party without a purchase permit from the local law enforcement brigade? I have lived in 4 states in the last 20 years and none of them allow such a deal Especially from a different state.
Click to expand...

You must have lived in the 4 most restrictive states in the country. I've lived in 3 and your post is the first time I've ever heard of a purchase permit.
Local law enforcement is in no way involved in the purchase of firearms in Arkansas, Mississippi or Alabama (the 3 I've lived in).

Now you are correct in thinking there are rules that apply for individual sales to a different state.
If you sell a firearm to someone in another state, you must have an FFL transfer done.

If you buy a long gun from a dealer in a different state you can do the NICS check in the state you purchase it in and take it home.
If you buy a handgun in a different state than you live in, it must be shipped to an FFL in your state and the transfer done there.
Silly I know, but it's the law.
 
WestKentucky said:
It can go either way even with a FFL transfer. One of my acquaintences had a gun he sold on consignment get used in a homicide several years later. He got a visit from the local PD when the detectives found the weapon and tried tracking it down. The only name the gun was tied to was him as he had sent in a warranty card listing serial number. The FFL couldn't find the paperwork, and the gun wasn't registered in a locale it should have been...this is backwards but the guy ended up in a tight spot for doing what was legal.

Another guy I know had a bad situation pop up when he purchased a gun through a FFL and it was reported stolen several months later when a couple divorced and the wife's 338 that stayed in the dresser drawer was missing after the husband got the boot.

Long story short you need to keep paperwork to support your transaction. A notarized slip saying you purchased the gun at such location on such date from such person with their statement that the gun was not stolen and they have legal right to sell it.
Click to expand...



Your examples disprove your advice. If transferring a gun through an FFL isn't enough protection then nothing can keep you safe from the law. Better to keep your mouth shut and have a lawyer on retainer than anything else.


You cannot prove your innocence in criminal matters with your own paperwork. Would your friends have been any safer from prosecution if they had kept their own bills of sale? I submit they would not.


The state needs something more than a sales record of a gun to prove that you committed a crime. If someone in California is killed with a gun that I purchased years ago I won't automatically become the prime suspect just because mine is the last name tied to that gun in an FFL record.
On the other hand if my next door neighbor that I just had an argument with is shot with a gun I bought from an FFL I will be a suspect no matter how official looking my bill of sale is.
 
Is it really legal to buy a handgun from a private party without a purchase permit from the local law enforcement brigade? I have lived in 4 states in the last 20 years and none of them allow such a deal


You must have lived in NJ, and NJ, and NJ, and NJ: NJ require an individual permit for each purchase, taking 1-6 months to get, and limited to one every 30

CA and now CO require private transfers thru FFL's (but AFAIK no "permit" applied for in advance?). days.

Can't think offhand of any other such places. List your four?



Willie

.
 
Arkansas Paul said:
No you aren't.
You may know if it has ever been reported stolen, that's it.

How would you know if it was used in a crime? Contrary to what people see on tv, they can't dig a bullet out of a guy, run it through a computer and say, "Hey, this came from John Smith's gun."

He asked to know how the gun was never used in a crime, and there is no such method possible.
Click to expand...
He also asked about knowing if the gun was stolen.

or stolen two dozen years ago and finally ends up in my hands?
Click to expand...

The paper trail runs cold on a gun after the original sale in most states. If a gun is recovered, the police can track as far back as to the original gun shop the firearm was delivered to, and to the original owner. If they question you, a simple "I sold the gun last year and don't know the guy's name" is sufficient unless they have other compelling evidence against you.
 
WestKentucky said:
Long story short you need to keep paperwork to support your transaction. A notarized slip saying you purchased the gun at such location on such date from such person with their statement that the gun was not stolen and they have legal right to sell it.
Click to expand...

That's just nuts.
 
Willie Sutton said:
Is it really legal to buy a handgun from a private party without a purchase permit from the local law enforcement brigade? I have lived in 4 states in the last 20 years and none of them allow such a deal

You must have lived in NJ, and NJ, and NJ, and NJ: NJ require an individual permit for each purchase, taking 1-6 months to get, and limited to one every 30

CA and now CO require private transfers thru FFL's (but AFAIK no "permit" applied for in advance?). days.

Can't think offhand of any other such places. List your four?

Willie

.
Click to expand...
North Carolina, Minnesota, Michigan, require purchase permits if you don't have a carry permit.

Nebraska - Handgun certificate for 3 years to purchase any number of handguns.
New Jersey - Permit to Purchase
New York - Pistol Permit and then go to the county to add additional pistols
Maryland - ID Card for handguns
Hawaii - Permit to acquire
Connecticut - Handgun eligibility certificate
Illinois - FOID and waiting period
Massachusetts - FID

California requires a DROS and a waiting period

Missouri used to have a purchase permit requirement for handguns. But that was done away with a few years ago.

So yes there are a number of states that require some kind of permission before buying a handgun. This list is not complete or extensive. But just quickly gathered for illustration purposes. In some cases, a carry permit might negate the need for a pistol permit. Both New Jersey and Hawaii handgun purchase requirements are similar.
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