Private University seizure of firearms

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docsleepy

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OK, folks, set me straight here. Explain this to me.

Private (catholic) university. 2 seniors living in housing owned by University. University student handbook forbids the possession of firearms (see: https://www.gonzaga.edu/Student-Lif.../Security-and-Safety-Information/Policies.asp )

Students experience attempted forced entry by intruder, pull firearm, intuder leaves, no shots fired, students call police and campus security, reports taken, intruder later arrested, turns out to be repeat felon.

Hours later school security knocks on doors, enters (they have that right on their property according to what I read), seizes multiple firearms.

I'm not discussing the expulsion threat to the students; that is between them and their school.

What I'm intersted in is whether the private school has the right to SEIZE private property possessed in violation of their "policy". On the Alcohol portion of their policy, you see hearings, etc. NO where on their policy did I find (correct me?) a right to SEIZURE of private property.

Wouldn't the legal approach been to hold a hearing on the students' violation of their policy? Under what legal authority (given the contractural relationshiop between student and school) do they get to seize property?

Obviously, the private property here is of keen interest to THIS FORUM, as it happens to be "firearms" which is what this forum is all about -- the legal aspects of firearms ownership.
Thanks.
 
Yes, I read that, and thought it was hilarious. That ought to cause and interesting discussion the DA's office when the officer find the stolen property rather easily.
 
The students were obviously wrong in having the firearms in the residence. I can’t help but believe that the school security officers did not have the authority to confiscate the weapons, unless the security officers were also “sworn law enforcement officers” and a city, county, or state law had been broken by having the weapons on school property.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out....
 
The guards are acting as agents of the university in enforcing their rules.

I am not sure they require any further legal authority. No doubt there is some provision in the lease that allows the university to enforce its rules.

I don't know if there was any actual law broken.

Could the guards seize other contraband? What is special about guns?

I am not sure the school can keep the guns. They clearly do not belong to the school and unless there is some law being broken it is hard to see how the real police would get involved.
 
I can't find their lease anywhere on their university web site.

Can security personnel do ANYTHING within reason, or are they also subject to written statements?

Can they remove ANYTYHING that in their minds is potentially hazardous? A bottle of dilute hydrochloric acid? (toilet cleaner) A sharp kitchen knife? (weapon) How far does this go?
 
When I called this morning at breakfast (not thinking about the time difference....) their person said their security guards are NOT police officers.

On MY campus, they ARE.
 
As it is finally 0800 there, I called. They have a dedicated "marketing" person to answer the phone -- and she had no idea under what authority the seizure of private property took place......

She said they would get back to me; I suggested that it was very likely that lawyers both in their school and in the DA's office were working this out, so SOMEONE does have an answer by now....its been a couple days.....

If I were the university's legal representative, I would be on the phone fast to those students, saying, "Find a place off our property to store your weapons ASAP and we want to get them back in your hands ASAP!"

But then, that's just me.
 
From the link above: "The Gonzaga President sent an open email to students on Saturday acknowledging calls to reevaluate the school’s rules on guns."

Interesting...
 
Thanks! Hadn't seen that outcome. Seems fair as far as their violation of the school's policies go. (Honestly, why did the officer even SEE their shotgun???)

BUT ....

Now these specific students are known to be disarmed, broadcast to the entire nation.
\
If I were the University, I would be providing them with some form of protection, lest I be liable should anything happen to them!!

And I'd be worried about
a) felony charges for illegally taking firearms
b) getting those firearms back as soon as possible
c) possible civil rights charges / suits "under color of law"

I'm not a lawyer, but I think this is going to be interesting, just like the fellow whose rights were violated in Deming AZ on suspicion of drugs....

We must ask our government to strictly follow the law, just as we do.
 
docsleepy said:
I can't find their lease anywhere on their university web site.

Can security personnel do ANYTHING within reason, or are they also subject to written statements?

Can they remove ANYTYHING that in their minds is potentially hazardous? A bottle of dilute hydrochloric acid? (toilet cleaner) A sharp kitchen knife? (weapon) How far does this go?
Click to expand...
I would think this is a matter of a private contract between the students and the school. Who knows what is in that contract. Or what state law might have to say about such things.
 
zxcvbob said:
The student has reported the guns to the real police as having been stolen.
Click to expand...

Generally speaking, as I understand it, if you are on private property and you break the rules (not laws) in effect there, you can be asked to leave or be considered a trespasser. You cannot legally be detained, nor can your property be confiscated.

It occurs to me that the confiscation could constitute an illegal transfer (if, for instance, the students were considered residents of another state), and the students reported them as stolen to show that they were not a willing party to such a transfer.
 
So even if they do confiscate it (can that really be legal?) they cannot hold it indefinitely as that would be considered theft. However they might possibly be able to hold it until the students can find a place off campus to store it (i would find that reasonable)
 
Sentryau2 said:
However they might possibly be able to hold it until the students can find a place off campus to store it (i would find that reasonable)
Click to expand...

Or, they could return it with their apologies, and change their policy to allow legally owned and stored guns on the campus. I would find that reasonable.
 
The students may have commited some breech of policy or agreement. It appears the University commited a crime. I wonder if the new agreement not to expel the students comes with an agreement that they won't persue civil or criminal charges against the school.

Mike
 
I went to a private university and the campus security guards were extremely limited on what they could and could not do. For example they could not enter an unoccupied room (verified by knocking) unless there is a clear danger to the university. The example used in the handbook is in case of a building fire to check for unconscious occupants. They did not have search and seizure authority in any circumstance. They even got in trouble when a pipe broke in one of the dorms and several security guards were removing high value items from the rooms to prevent damage to them (computers etc)
 
OK, so we'll wait and see what the lawyers come up with.

NOW: This has always bothered me, how the police or other authorities may (legally or not) confiscate firearms from a person, leaving them defenseless.

What would happen if
a) they clearly have whatever firearm was used (if any were used) in whatever (defensive) event they were called for -- so they are going to impound THAT one for sure!
b) other firearms are LOCKED UP inside of a safe, and
c) even other firearms are LOCKED in other locations not immediately apparent

1. Can the authorities compel you to open a locked safe?
2. Can they force or destroy a locked safe?
3. How could they possibly retreive a firearm safely stored in a location of which they are not aware?
 
^ I also wonder what would happen if...

... d) any one of the Security People who grabbed the guns and/or any persons who accepted the guns and placed them into storage turned out to be Prohibited Persons themselves.

Worms.

Cans thereof.

Terry.

Amused thereby.

Terry, 230RN
 
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I am experiencing delightful schadenfreude at seeing little totalitarian Statists learning that they are not the State and the State does not have their back. The light was just turned on and the cockroaches are scuttling in fear of the Boot of Just Retribution (TM).
 
It should be emphasized that this is an off-campus apartment, owned and rented by the University, apparently regulating the students as though they were living on-campus.

Volokh Conspiracy (blog for lawyers) has an open thread:
http://www.volokh.com/2013/11/08/go...ing-guns-private-university-owned-apartments/
Eugene Volokh, "Gonzaga Students Facing Expulsion for Legally Possessing Guns in Private University-Owned Apartments", Volokh Conspiracy, 8 Nov 2013.
 
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