TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
This is my favorite BS excuse for not joining.
When you join you can opt out of all the spam mailings.
I get maybe 3 or 4 things a year from NRA.
Pro-gun ownership but not pro-NRA?
- Thread starter cluttonfred
- Start date
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This is my favorite BS excuse for not joining.
When you join you can opt out of all the spam mailings.
I get maybe 3 or 4 things a year from NRA.
ny32182
Member
Three or four is still more than I need. What would I accomplish by being a member that I am not accomplishing by donating to their cause?
highorder
Member
I get my magazines, and important email. I appreciate both.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
The reality is that politicians respond to threats, that's just the way it is.
NRA uses it's membership number in a particular zip code or voting district to show the power of the voting bloc it represents.
Fewer members means less leverage in a given area. Just a fact of politics.
HardShell
Member
Some of the perceived lobbying clout in DC has much more to do with membership numbers than $$$ in the bank.
The NRA has done a great job IMHO with only a tiny %age of all US gun owners as members... think of how much more they could do with 10x that.
Just a thought.
ETA: DANG! I've got to learn to type faster...
BTW there's another reason for apparent partisanship. One party's platform is anti-gun, the other is not. The NRA is pro-gun, so they will, more often than not, end up on the side of the party that is not anti-gun, even if they don't want it that way.
From On The Issues http://ontheissues.org/default.htm
The Democratic Party platform:
The Republican Party platform:
From On The Issues http://ontheissues.org/default.htm
The Democratic Party platform:
The Republican Party platform:
oneounceload
member
OP - did you ever answer my question regarding your statement about "responsible gun ownership"?
TT
member
Now you’ve done it- you’re not allowed to say anything bad about Democrats at THR…
Android, quite obviously you've never heard of the California Rifle And Pistol Association. It is a statewide sister organization of the NRA, and extremely active in fighting the Marxist Socialist Fascist inspired, power mad Calif. legislators who constantly seek to eventually ban firearms and ammo from the worker peasants in Calif. Unfortunately, with the makeup of the Legislature , it is almost impossible for the CRPA & NRA to stop almost all anti-guns bills there, especially with your Gov. Arnold Kennedy being in their pocket when it comes to firearms and ammo. (Hunting, too.)
You wanna fight the gun grabbers, join both CRPA & NRA. (I'm a life member of both,including the Calif. Wildlife Foundation.) I lived for 35 years in Los Angeles, fought the gun grabbers for most of that time and know what the score is there in Calif.
OWLINMOLE , the only reason you still legally own firearms here in the USA, is quite simply because that organization you dislike, the NAtional Rifle Association and its members, have fought assiduously over many years to protect your Right to own those firearms you like to shoot when you return to the States. The. Only. Reason. Without the NRA and its members, long ago, the far left tyrannists here would have banned and confiscated your, my, our firearms. And if you thnk they don't still have that very same goal, you know nothing about the far left political wannabee dictators who rule this country.
Of course, everyone has a Right to think and speak as he wants.
That said, in my opinion, gun owners who disparage the NRA and refuse to join and help fight, are nothing more than parasites, feeding off the efforts of us who do fight, riding complacently along on our backs as nothing more than liabilities.
That's my take on it.
L.W.
MT GUNNY
Member
I would like to Know the OP's definition of "responsible gun ownership" Also?
For those NRA non-believers, be sure to check out the British gun video in the other thread (if you haven't seen it already). I hadn't seen it before, but now that I have, I will be getting out my checkbook and writing some more checks to NRA and GOA...
Eliot Smith
Member
Partisan is a good part of our Republic
I am interested in more of what the OP thinks, as are others here. The OP seems to be looking for support rather than opposition, however. For example:
"I know that many, in fact most, THR members will disagree with this point of view, and I respect that. I would be interested to hear if there are any other members here who support responsible gun ownership but are turned off by the NRA."
So, Owlnmole, you respect those who have opposing positions but are looking for supporters of your opinion. This action and deliberation of yours is exactly how Madison expected men to be when helping to support our constitution. Refer to http://federali.st/10. Focus on the following part especially:
"There are again two methods of removing the causes of faction: the one, by destroying the liberty which is essential to its existence; the other, by giving to every citizen the same opinions, the same passions, and the same interests.
"It could never be more truly said than of the first remedy, that it was worse than the disease. Liberty is to faction what air is to fire, an aliment without which it instantly expires. But it could not be less folly to abolish liberty, which is essential to political life, because it nourishes faction, than it would be to wish the annihilation of air, which is essential to animal life, because it imparts to fire its destructive agency.
"The second expedient is as impracticable as the first would be unwise. As long as the reason of man continues fallible, and he is at liberty to exercise it, different opinions will be formed. As long as the connection subsists between his reason and his self-love, his opinions and his passions will have a reciprocal influence on each other; and the former will be objects to which the latter will attach themselves. The diversity in the faculties of men, from which the rights of property originate, is not less an insuperable obstacle to a uniformity of interests. The protection of these faculties is the first object of government. From the protection of different and unequal faculties of acquiring property, the possession of different degrees and kinds of property immediately results; and from the influence of these on the sentiments and views of the respective proprietors, ensues a division of the society into different interests and parties."
Madison goes on to conclude that faction in thus a part of our nature as humans. So when you favor supporting the non-profit part in lieu of the "partisan attack dog" you simply support raising a faction to combat the power of that one. You become another player in the partisan game.
Isn't our system great?!! We get to be humans! Humans carry guns, pick fights for reasons other than the sexual drive, wear buttons, kill others out of revenge for perceived wrongs done, blow things up for fun, play the political game of spamming, pandering, lobbying, etc. with other humans who do the same. In short, we aren't sheep. The more you find that an organization, administration, or campaign is trying to get you to act like sheep, the more you should thank those who fight for your Second Amendment right to strike down a single minded tyranny should it finally arise.
I am interested in more of what the OP thinks, as are others here. The OP seems to be looking for support rather than opposition, however. For example:
"I know that many, in fact most, THR members will disagree with this point of view, and I respect that. I would be interested to hear if there are any other members here who support responsible gun ownership but are turned off by the NRA."
So, Owlnmole, you respect those who have opposing positions but are looking for supporters of your opinion. This action and deliberation of yours is exactly how Madison expected men to be when helping to support our constitution. Refer to http://federali.st/10. Focus on the following part especially:
"There are again two methods of removing the causes of faction: the one, by destroying the liberty which is essential to its existence; the other, by giving to every citizen the same opinions, the same passions, and the same interests.
"It could never be more truly said than of the first remedy, that it was worse than the disease. Liberty is to faction what air is to fire, an aliment without which it instantly expires. But it could not be less folly to abolish liberty, which is essential to political life, because it nourishes faction, than it would be to wish the annihilation of air, which is essential to animal life, because it imparts to fire its destructive agency.
"The second expedient is as impracticable as the first would be unwise. As long as the reason of man continues fallible, and he is at liberty to exercise it, different opinions will be formed. As long as the connection subsists between his reason and his self-love, his opinions and his passions will have a reciprocal influence on each other; and the former will be objects to which the latter will attach themselves. The diversity in the faculties of men, from which the rights of property originate, is not less an insuperable obstacle to a uniformity of interests. The protection of these faculties is the first object of government. From the protection of different and unequal faculties of acquiring property, the possession of different degrees and kinds of property immediately results; and from the influence of these on the sentiments and views of the respective proprietors, ensues a division of the society into different interests and parties."
Madison goes on to conclude that faction in thus a part of our nature as humans. So when you favor supporting the non-profit part in lieu of the "partisan attack dog" you simply support raising a faction to combat the power of that one. You become another player in the partisan game.
Isn't our system great?!! We get to be humans! Humans carry guns, pick fights for reasons other than the sexual drive, wear buttons, kill others out of revenge for perceived wrongs done, blow things up for fun, play the political game of spamming, pandering, lobbying, etc. with other humans who do the same. In short, we aren't sheep. The more you find that an organization, administration, or campaign is trying to get you to act like sheep, the more you should thank those who fight for your Second Amendment right to strike down a single minded tyranny should it finally arise.
627PCFan
Member
To the OP-
Many gun owners and 2A supporters believe the NRA is a neccessary evil just as many see politicians as a necessary evil. Personally I support the NRA but believe their use of public relations tactics to be a bit abbrasive. I WAS pro ownership, not pro-NRA and then I saw the good that organization can accomplish and decided I wanted to aid.
And lets not beat up on the 2A supporting Democrats. They are out there and the do fight the fight. I think alot of people should be more accepting and supporting of them.
Many gun owners and 2A supporters believe the NRA is a neccessary evil just as many see politicians as a necessary evil. Personally I support the NRA but believe their use of public relations tactics to be a bit abbrasive. I WAS pro ownership, not pro-NRA and then I saw the good that organization can accomplish and decided I wanted to aid.
And lets not beat up on the 2A supporting Democrats. They are out there and the do fight the fight. I think alot of people should be more accepting and supporting of them.
I'm not beating up on 2A supporting Democrats. I'm saying that the party platform is anti-gun and anti-2A, most party standard-bearer politicians are anti-2A (some rabidly so), the judges Democrats appoint are anti-2A, and therefore the NRA will appear to be anti-Democrat, or "partisan." Most of the time, they're opposing the Democrat, because he/she is opposing them. That would include Obama/Biden in 2008.
Democrat individuals and politicians who are pro-2A have my support -- more than others, really, because they are thinking for themselves and acting on their personal values, not the groupthink that is common among many people, of all political stripes.
Democrat individuals and politicians who are pro-2A have my support -- more than others, really, because they are thinking for themselves and acting on their personal values, not the groupthink that is common among many people, of all political stripes.
OP
OP
cluttonfred
Member
Nope, I have not replied to that question as I have been around long enough, I think, to know when not to take the bait. As I said, I am not going to get into a partisan debate here. I am frequently disturbed by the party politics displayed on this site, not because I am opposed to party politics, but because they detract from this site as a place for firearms enthusiasts to discuss our common interest.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
In a perfect world the two would be exclusive, but since our shared hobby/lifestyle/whatever is firearms and the ownership of those firearms seems to be constantly under attack from one place or another, you can't really separate politics from gun ownership.
If you ignore the politics and legal aspects of gun ownership it will only be a very short time before ownership of guns would be outlawed completely.
And, as posted earlier, one party consistently lists an anti gun position as part of their parties platform. Many members of that party ignore that stance, no question, but the fact that they continue to choose to list it, in writing, is telling. And, the other party does anti gun things too, the Governor of California for example.
So, how can you have a non partisan, non political discussion of gun ownership under these conditions?
Unless the Supreme Court strikes down any and all gun ownership restrictions as un-Constitutional, politics will always be involved in owning and enjoying firearms.
It's been suggested by many, and the owner/s of this site even state it, that politics is not appropriate to most posts here, but you can't ignore it completely.
You accuse the NRA and people here of being "partisan", but you consider discussing that to be "taking the bait."
The question was about "responsible gun ownership", not political party association.
I think that those of us who tried to discuss this with you were merely "taking the bait."
Oops.
Troll.
(For the record, I think the Democratic Party is utterly repulsive -- just like the Republican Party. But if a certain issue in a party's platform happens to be similar to my beliefs, or opposed to them, then, well, so it is.)
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Deanimator
Member
British gun owner organizations weren't "confrontational". How's that working out for British handgun owners? Oh yeah, with a VERY few exceptions, there AREN'T any.
Quislings like AHSA are like Jews advocating "compromise" with Adolf Eichmann, hoping they'll be the last onto the train to Auschwitz.
Deanimator
Member
Unless I missed something, he didn't ask you what political party to which you belonged, or for whom you voted. He asked you about "responsible gun ownership". Explain for those of us less intelligent than yourself the political component in "responsible gun ownership"?
So, what IS "responsible gun ownership"? Can't you define it? Or would doing so work contrary to your REAL intent here?
paintballdude902
Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2007
- Messages
- 2,872
i too am not a fan of the nra in fact i made a thread a while back maybe with a pole to see how other feel
freakshow10mm
member
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,951
I am not an NRA member. I do not agree with their opinion on the ownership of NFA weapons, so they can pound sand.
OP
OP
cluttonfred
Member
Deanimator and ArmedBear, while I may not have thousands of posts to my name, a quick review of my posts to date will show that I am a contributing member of this virtual community. Calling someone a troll because they refuse to get in an argument with you is childish and not particularly THR, IMHO. In fact, the knee-jerk aggression towards someone who appears to disagree with you on some points illustrates my point about the NRA rather well.
ezypikns
Member
I think they do more than any other group to protect my rights.
Maybe I don't like EVERYTHING they do, but which other organization does as much?
And as far as partisan politics go, the NRA will recognize Democrats who work to support RKBA. We have a few of those here in Texas, you know.
Maybe I don't like EVERYTHING they do, but which other organization does as much?
And as far as partisan politics go, the NRA will recognize Democrats who work to support RKBA. We have a few of those here in Texas, you know.
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