problem with 223 reloads and case crushing

[trickyasafox]

okay, so i was loading a batch of 223 the other day, and of 40 rounds, i crushed 10 cases! and i found that almost all of my cases had been over expanded by my necksizing die, and the bullets were literally falling into the case and resting on the powder, i cursed so much i'd have made sailors blush, but im unsure as to why the cases kept crushing, i set the die for a light crimp and got crushed cases?

 

[JSR]

Not sure if I'm reading this right but...if you'r seating and crimping with the bullet seating die and have it screwed in too far(the die),that'll crush the shoulder/neck of the case. Back it off a bit.

 

[Bullet]

What brand dies are you using? Are you crimping with a separate die? What kind of brass are you using? How many times fired? What does your neck expander measure?

 

[db_tanker]

was the brass fired out of an semi-auto?

Generally its a case length issue.

As far as your expander ball oversizing the throat...dunno bout that...what brand dies are you using?

Reason I asked about the gun you fired the brass in...SLR's normally have a habit of letting the case neck get longer due to the more generous throat. All this means is that you will have to trim your brass.

There is also the possibility of you using a 223 dia instead of a 224 dia bullet...these are all guesses, however. I just hope you get it figured out.

Darrell

 

[Steve Smith]

As others have said, perhaps you need to trim your brass...OR you aren't bumping back the shoulder when you size...OR...

There's a lot that could go wrong here. I think the first thing that crossed my mind was "why are you crimping?"

 

[trickyasafox]

im using lee dies, all the brass was trimmed to a uniform length, and was only fired once, out of a thompson encore. length was well under the max, i think the lee trimmer trims em to .65, but ill have to double check that number.. . . .i know it was way off max length. bullets were barnes and sierra with some hornady's as well. all had the same problems.

i am crimping with the same die, its the only way i could keep the bullets from dropping immediatly into the case! the necks were so expanded neck tension was little more then a lofty goal. i had to have over expanded them, but im not sure how i did with a collet die?

 

[30Cal]

Send the sizing die back and have them fix it. Crimp is a poor substitute for a sizing die that works as it should.

 

[redneck2]

If you have a "mentor" I'd have them check this out. Something sounds way off...way off.

Anything's possible, but I have a hard time believing a die mfg would put out something so far off spec, tho stranger things have happened

 

[Austin Charles]

I doubt this is your problem but all my cases that I had a crushing problem was due to getting lube on the necks.

 

[Ky Larry]

Is this the first time you have used these dies? If so, there is probably a problem with the full length resizer die. If you have made good reloads with these dies, then you may be doing something wrong.You might try removing the decapper pin from the resizing die. The area above the pin is what resizes the neck. I just took my Lee .223 die apart and miced it. It measured .2225 inch. Check the instruction sheet for the die disassembly procedure. If you don't have the instruction sheet, let me know if you have any problems with taking the decapper pin out of the resizing die and I'll try to do a better job of explaning the procedure.
P.S. Make sure you you didn't grab your .243 dies insted of your .223 dies. I've tried to load .45 LC ammo with .44 Mag dies.

 

[Steve Smith]

I heartily agree with 30cal and KY Larry (is that KY as in Kentucky or KY as in KY Jelly?)

If you "have" to crimp so your bullets stay in the case then you have a problem with your sizing die. I DON'T think you have a problem with (only) the expander ball, but you could. Seems to me if it is barely going in through the neck (is it?) on the way down, then it wouldn't be oversizing the neck on the way out. Easy way to find out is to take the ball out and try it. Otherwise, yes, are you SURE you have .223 dies?

You should not have to crimp .223s at all.

 

[db_tanker]

I hate to sound like "one of them"....but I used to crush quite a few cases with my Lee dies and 223 brass......until I got me a new set of RCBS dies...

Neck tension is beautiful and I don't have to worry about seating boat tail bullets...flat base bullets are kinda tricky, but still manageable...

Lyman has their M die that is for loading cast bullets...works good with FB bullets as well...

I was curious if they were all flat base bullets?

Darrell

 

[Big_R]

If you have some fired brass that hasn't been sized yet, remove the decapping pin from your sizing die and run a case. The neck should have sufficient tension to hold the bullet. If it doesn't the problem is with your die. If the case has enough neck tension, the problem is with the expanding ball on the decapping pin. Check it with a micrometer. Generally, they measure a little under the size of your bullet.

Ryan

 

[Rockstar]

The Lee Collet Die set doesn't have an "expander ball", so I don't see how you'r overexpanding your case necks. What you've done is either sprung the collets (there's a remedy included in your instructions), or you don't have the sizing die set up correctly.

Unless you got the Deluxe die set, you don't have a crimping die. The seater die that comes with the Collet die set doesn't crimp...it only seats. Could it be that you're trying to crimp with a seater-only die?

You've screwed up way before you got to the seating/crimping steps. Go back and read the instructions and/or get somebody who knows how to use a Lee Collet Die set to help you.

 

[user203]

Can We get a hallaluja, and an Amen to the RCBS replacing the Lee dies.LOL

They are cheap for a reason

 

[petrel800]

And what reason would that be?

 

[Rockstar]

Probably nothing wrong with the Lee dies. Probably something wrong with the Lee die user.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Simple and quick question...How many times have you loaded these cases or do you know???

 

[db_tanker]

In answer to Petrel 800, this is merely an oppinion, okay?

But I have learned to not trust Lee rifle dies.

I use their carbide pistol dies exclusively, but I have never had any kind of good luck with their rifle dies. Crushed shoulders, inconsistent COAL, and the fact that I had to snatch a couple dozen o-rings from the shop to replace the ones that seem to get destroyed after only a few uses...

How do I use them? I do a bullet seat first, then do the crimp...never do them together...I don't even decap with dies anymore...just use a universal decapper...tumble clean,check length and trim if needed, FL resize or neck size, flare the throat for straight wall cases, and tumble again...prime, label and seal in a baggie for future fun.


I shoot 223 out of a 12" Contender. When I run my brass for that and other bottleneck cartridge pistols I have, I only neck size. And I don't crimp.

Single shot pistols and rifles are wonderful about that...they generally have a good, tight chamber. That resizing die should be turned out at least a half turn after it bottoms on the shell-holder. Those cases are fire-formed to your chamber and will provide very good accuracy like that...you just neck-size so that neck tension will retain the bullet in place...thats all you need.

Sorry about climbing onto the soap-box...I am not trying to preach.

Hope this helps some
darrell

 

[Bullet]

Not sure if this applies, but you might check -

http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=213908

 

[trickyasafox]

as stated before the brass was fired only once by me in this gun. i know the error has to be me. as for how am i crimping them? after i got my collet die set i realized i wanted a crimper, so i got a RGB *really great buy or something like that set* so i could get a seat and crimp die and a full length sizing die. someone said case lube was causing their crushed cases, and that may be my problem too, i had just gotten some spray lube and was probably over generous with it. if i got some on the stem could that be causing my problems? i think i may just pull the ones i got to load okay, go buy some more factory fresh ammo and start over :banghead: which does stink something fowl but i guess its better safe then sorry. the ones that did load hold the tension of the bullet very well, and they chamber and spec out fine, but obviously there is a problem in my loading process, so i guess ill just have to go back to the drawing board

 

[Bullet]

trickasafox

Maybe your brass needs annealed? I’ve had trouble with Remington brass in other calibers. If your neck sizing only there should be lube on the neck. I believe crushed cases or dented cases from lube, only happens when full length sizing.

Not trying to hi-jack your thread, but I’ve never had a Lee collet (neck sizing) die. My neck sizing die is a Redding. Could someone explain the difference between Redding and Lee?

 

[Rockstar]

You dont need to be crimping. You do need to be correctly neck-sizing, and the Lee Collet Die is excellent for neck-sizing. Per my previous post, read Lee's instructions about setting up the sizing die. It is possible to "spring" the collets; there's a remedy in the instructions.

There is no expander ball in your Lee set. There is a mandrel that the collets push the case necks into for properly sizing.

Use the seater die that came with the Collet Die Set. It's great @ seating and won't crimp. Did I mention that you don't need to be crimping?

 

[Steve Smith]

I also have never owned a Lee collet set for the .223, so I hope I'm not overstepping my boundaries, here. I'll just try to be general.

#1 you don't need to crimp, period, so let's take that out of the picture.
Now, with crimping out, do you still have a problem? yes, the bullet won't stay in the case when sized.

#2 You aren't sizing the neck correctly.
Check for this "sprung collet" problem. I understand what that would be like having had other collet die products.

Here are the possibilities (that I see), in order of probability:

Not running the sizing die down far enough.

Sprung collets will not apply pressure onto case neck.

Collets or die or both are for wrong caliber. (could be mislabelled or improperly packaged from LEE)

Collets or entire die is improperly made.

Good luck!

 

[1911 guy]

Overlooking the obvious

The first question that came to my mind was whether or not the bullet was cannelured to allow crimping. If not, I'm surprised more cases were not crushed. If so, how much of a crimp was the die set for? More than was feasible?