Problem with Colt style action on my RIA revolver?

[KarateHottie93]

First off, I love this RIA M206 revolver...almost as much as the Colt Cobra in my profile picture. I'm a huge fan of the smoothness of Colt actions when functioning properly, even on cheaper clones like this that uses a coil mainspring.

The issue I'm having is with a snag in the trigger pull. Unless the gun is laying on it's right side, there is a catch or hard spot right as the bolt drops into the locking grooves. It's as if the crane has enough play that it's not shutting quite enough for lockup to be perfect as intended.

As mentioned though, if I hold the gun on it's right side, or manually pinch the crane shut tight, it has a perfect trigger pull that absolutely rivals my real Colt.

I have dealt with Colt style timing issues before. My Cobra was locking up just the tiniest bit late when slow cocked and it was keyholing. I lived with it until my mainspring broke (honestly my misuse caused it) and I sent it in. I was happy they fixed the timing issue in the process.

This isn't near that bad. There's nothing I can do to make it fire without being fully locked up. It's just that the little snag drives me absolutely insane because this $200 revolver is otherwise incredibly accurate, and the trigger is just amazing when it locks up as intended.

Is there anything I can do to get the crane to shut tighter without sending it back or taking a $200 gun to a gunsmith?

Thank you.

 

[beag_nut]

I guess you gets what you pay for. Perhaps the $25 fee to send it back to the mothership might be worth it. Or not.

 

[KarateHottie93]

I guess you gets what you pay for. Perhaps the $25 fee to send it back to the mothership might be worth it. Or not.

I'm just not sure it's something they would even actually fix. It was already inspected by a human and checked for several functions before leaving the factory. They even sent the shells from where they test fired it. They'd probably just be annoyed that someone expects a $200 revolver that's already completely functional to be perfect.

 

[PWC]

I've heard good things about RI cust service. As a customer you have the right to expect the firearm to work as it should. Why not give them bv the cgance to make it right?

 

[DT Guy]

I'm no revolver expert, but could an additional lock -up detent added to the crane fix this? I know those are used when adding bull barrels and losing the front locking detent on a S&W, and they're not that hard to install.

Larry

 

[KarateHottie93]

I'm no revolver expert, but could an additional lock -up detent added to the crane fix this? I know those are used when adding bull barrels and losing the front locking detent on a S&W, and they're not that hard to install.

Larry

Hmm I may end up trying this. At least worth checking it out.

I've heard hood things about RI cust service. As a customer you have the right to expect the firearm to work as it should. Why not give them bv the cgance to make it right?

This is worth trying too. I'll probably look into this first and see what the turnaround is. Definitely would rather it be a factory job.

 

[DT Guy]

Hmm I may end up trying this. At least worth checking it out.



This is worth trying too. I'll probably look into this first and see what the turnaround is. Definitely would rather it be a factory job.

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...e-ball-drilling-fixture-for-s-w-prod9849.aspx

Larry

 

[9mmepiphany]

It sounds a bit like you might just have a sprung crane, as if someone closed the cylinder with a flick of their wrist...I had this happen when an ex-BiL did that to my S&W M-34. Is there a gap where the crane meets the frame when closed; does it widen as you pull the trigger

I took it to a local reputable pistolsmith who showed me how to easily fix it. I'm reluctant to share the method as the last time I did caused grasp of horrors, but it involves a Q-tip and a mallet

If you have a good local gunsmith, I'd start there. Or just give RIA a call

 

[KarateHottie93]

It sounds a bit like you might just have a sprung crane, as if someone closed the cylinder with a flick of their wrist...I had this happen when an ex-BiL did that to my S&W M-34. Is there a gap where the crane meets the frame when closed; does it widen as you pull the trigger

I took it to a local reputable pistolsmith who showed me how to easily fix it. I'm reluctant to share the method as the last time I did caused grasp of horrors, but it involves a Q-tip and a mallet

If you have a good local gunsmith, I'd start there. Or just give RIA a call

Hmm...that might be the case but it was this way when I bought it new. I got it from Rural King and they won't let you look at it without the trigger lock because they're a giant store with "safety" policies. I didn't get to really check the timing or trigger pull. Everything looked aesthetically great from a functionality standpoint. The crane fits the frame perfectly when gravity is on it's side. As soon as it's even slightly tilted to the left though, like it just hangs open the slightest bit. If it is straight and not sprung...I honestly wouldn't mind making it just the tiniest bit cockeyed so it would fit tighter.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The crane fits the frame perfectly when gravity is on it's side. As soon as it's even slightly tilted to the left though, like it just hangs open the slightest bit. If it is straight and not sprung...I honestly wouldn't mind making it just the tiniest bit cockeyed so it would fit tighter.

The first sentence above tells me that the crane is sprung. It just needs to be bent back in a bit

 

[KarateHottie93]

The first sentence above tells me that the crane is sprung. It just needs to be bent back in a bit

I really appreciate that. I never even considered a bent crane. I'll see what a local gun smith will charge to fix it. It's otherwise an amazing firearm and by far the cheapest one I would ever carry and actually trust.

 

[GooseGestapo]

As nostalgic as everyone here seems to be about Smiths and Colts, I worked in a LGS in high school in the ‘70’s.
I remember all the “issues” that new guns came with back then. Not really different than now.

In 1977, my older brother was on the Air Force Rifle/pistol team at McDill AFB. Though ineligible for State Gov 20, regional, and national PPC matches, they competed in the local matches. The team received 5 brand new Mod15’s that varied from acceptable to abysmal accuracy and actions.
They took them to Jim Fish, a local gunsmith who was also a S&W regional repair/warranty center for S&W.
He told them to dry fire the guns 500-1,000 times and then bring them in.
Each gun got a trigger and action job to include adjusting the yokes, forward and rear end shake, regulating barrel cylinder gaps, reaming the cylinders, and recutting forcing cones.
When returned to McDill, they were Ransom Rest test fired. Every gun would hold the X-ring at 50yds (B-27 target) with Winchester SuperX Match 148gr wad cutters.

They each had 8lb d/a and 2.75 lb s/a. .004” b/c gaps... Spectacularly smooth. Cost to Uncle Sam was iirc $75 each... guns only cost $157.00...

I could probably “fix” the OP’s revolver as I have the tools and expertise to do so.
Many of the old Colts came that way (OP’s issues). I had a coworker that his father’s Colt Dept Spec that frequently misfired due to out of timing. I had to pay $$ for a hand and extractor to “fix” it. It came that way from factory... mass production and production quotas have been a thing since WWII.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

With the Colt "Bank Vault" lockup the tension on the center pin is more important than tension on the end of the crane. The tension on the center pin is determined by the latch spring. If you look at a schematic of the Colt D-Frame, and compare it to a schematic of your RI/Armscor M206 you'll notice two things: the parts are similar but not identical in the latch/bolt; and, the method of lockup is identical - bolt and latch. The timing hand is pushing the cylinder into the frame, not away from it, and that's an important thing to note. Check your bolt and latch springs for proper length and heat treat. Consider replacing them if they seem even the slightest spongy or are too short, have improperly finished ends, etc.

 

[Mizar]

Let's first notice, that Armscor's mechanism is a copy of Colt's MkIII/V one and has nothing to do with the old style Colt action - Armscor locks the cylinder just by the bolt. Let's start from here...

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Let's first notice, that Armscor's mechanism is a copy of Colt's MkIII/V one and has nothing to do with the old style Colt action - Armscor locks the cylinder just by the bolt. Let's start from here...

Not entirely. Notice I specified the "Bank Vault" lockup, not JUST the D-Frame mechanism.
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1068960B
Armscor does lock the cylinder with a "cylinder lock" at the back of the cylinder, just like the old "Bank Vault" lockup, which is held in place by the latch and the latch spring, also just like the old "Bank Vault" lockup. Just like the Mk.III/V
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/colt/revolvers-colt/lawman-mkiii

The bolt is not the only lock used to keep the cylinder in place in any post-1900 action. A weak or missing latch will cause problems with timing.

 

[Mizar]

The old Colt "bank vault" lock up comes from two parts - the bolt and the hand, which pushes on the ratchet with it's lower finger. The cylinder lock only keeps the cylinder centered in the frame, that's it - no different than a S&W, Ruger and etc. Yes, a worn locking pin will contribute to poor lock up, but it has very little to do with the "bank vault" cylinder locking on older style Colt mechanisms. Hence, the newer Mk III/V revolvers don't have it. I get what you are saying, but this is not the "bank vault" lock up that older Colts were famous for.

 

[KarateHottie93]

Let's first notice, that Armscor's mechanism is a copy of Colt's MkIII/V one and has nothing to do with the old style Colt action - Armscor locks the cylinder just by the bolt. Let's start from here...

As the guy above me said, it does use the bank vault lockup. It's not the exact same but functionality wise, it's very similar in how the timing works.

The hand pushes the cylinder onto the stud. The hand, combined with the stud, and the bolt behind the cylinder all work together to lock it up tight when the hammer is fully cooked. Again, they're are differences, but the end result is achieved in a very similar fashion.

 

[Mizar]

OK, whatever...

 

[KarateHottie93]

OK, whatever...

Again...from a functionality standpoint, it locks up like an old Colt. Internally, you can see that's like a hybrid between the two actions. I have real Colts. I have clone Colts. I know how both actions lockup and how they feel. I don't know what it is you're trying to argue. This thing is definitely not a Trooper III clone like you said.

 

[Mizar]

Get that book, study it and then we can talk again: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1014291063?pid=132389
For the last time - the hand DOES NOT lock the cylinder when firing. If you want to know what "bank vault" lock up really is, then buy Volume 1 also.

 

[KarateHottie93]

Get that book, study it and then we can talk again: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1014291063?pid=132389
For the last time - the hand DOES NOT lock the cylinder when firing. If you want to know what "bank vault" lock up really is, then buy Volume 1 also.

You were saying…?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

View attachment 1037195 View attachment 1037196

You were saying…?

It's okay. I could just as easily be wrong, too. If it is weak springs - or short springs - in the bolt or latch, yay and hip-hip-hoorah! An easy "fix" and cheaper than shipping the gun back. If not, sorry but it looks like it's time to send it in for factory adjustment. They're nice guns from what I've seen and I kind of wanted one of the 4" Police Positive Special knock-offs when the first came into the country but I missed that boat and now they cost more than a used Colt. I may still trade into one some day if I find one that wasn't used as a truck gun.

 

[KarateHottie93]

It's okay. I could just as easily be wrong, too. If it is weak springs - or short springs - in the bolt or latch, yay and hip-hip-hoorah! An easy "fix" and cheaper than shipping the gun back. If not, sorry but it looks like it's time to send it in for factory adjustment. They're nice guns from what I've seen and I kind of wanted one of the 4" Police Positive Special knock-offs when the first came into the country but I missed that boat and now they cost more than a used Colt. I may still trade into one some day if I find one that wasn't used as a truck gun.

Honestly I'd take this thing in perfect functioning condition over a few old Colts just for the availability, and the fact that you don't really have to worry too much about shooting it like crazy. It's just got a nice feel and the single action break is better than my 2017 Cobra. Several people have shot them and agreed. Double action, it obviously takes the silver metal between the two. Even with the snagging issue mine has, it's still a better trigger pull than most DA revolvers in my opinion.