Problem with corrosive non-corrosive ammo

[Mr. Farknocker]

Anybody experience corrosion with non-corrosive ammo? I've been shooting Tul-ammo out of my new Saiga with a CL barrel. The barrel shows no sign of corrosion but I've noticed some rust in the gas tube. Also, I acquired a Colt 1903 ACP in very good condition with a pristine barrel. It came with a bunch of old Remington non-jacketed bullets still in the box marked "non-corrosive". I suspect the bullets must have been purchased sometime prior to the 1970s given the history of the handgun. In any event, I shot all of the ammo (about 20) and ended up with about 5 of the bullets that actually failed to fire. I then put the gun away without cleaning it for a few weeks. Last night, I pulled the pistol out to slug the barrel and found the barrel coated in surface rust. I did my best to clean the barrel out by scrubbing the barrel with a brass brush and by running several patches through but damage from the rust appears to be serious enough to cause some amount of pitting. I'm beginning to think that I should treat all ammo as corrosive and clean my firearms immediately after use just to be on the safe side.

Does anyone have a similar experience or have an understanding as to whats going with these non-corrosive corrosive ammo?

 

[Deus Machina]

Unless I've used it before and know that a particular load is fine--mostly just in my .22's--I always clean guns immediately afterwards. It's good practice.

I can't say exactly what the deal with this is, though. It could just be less corrosive, so it's technically non-corrosive, or it could be that the residue left in the barrel isn't corrosive but is just trapping moisture more than attracting it.

 

[akv3g4n]

I find it best to be very cautious no matter what the ammo is that I'm shooting. I always clean my firearms within hours of shooting and store them in a climate and humidity controlled environment.

I realize that sometimes life gets in the way of doing an immediate cleaning but even if you can run a patch of Hoppes down the barrel once or twice and run a patch of oil you will be ahead of the game. Just treat all ammo as corrosive with your cleaning practices and you should be fine.

I agree with Deus, maybe the fouling was just helping to trap moisture against the metal parts?

 

[tyeo098]

People don't clean their guns after shooting?
Its part of the fun!

 

[gearhead]

Could the bit of rust be from the steel of the ammo case vaporizing a bit and getting carried into the gas system?

 

[hang fire]

Why don't brass cases brass plate the gas system?

 

[gearhead]

How do you distinguish between copper jacketing material and brass cartridge material in a gas system? I've seen lots of gas operated guns with green deposits in the gas system.

 

[Reloadron]

And the humidity was? Shooting leaves residue, regardless of whether the ammunition is corrosive or non-corrosive. Any residue that will draw moisture will result in rust. This is especially true in a moist or humid environment. I have no clue where you are located or what environment the gun was stored in.

When making time to shoot, make time to clean what you shoot. Following cleaning properly lube the gun and store it in a dry environment.

Ron

 

[Mr. Farknocker]

I generally clean my guns within a day after shooting. If I'm shooting my Mosin, it gets disassembled and scrubbed out with hot water before getting the usual manicure/pedicure treatment. I neglected to do that with this pistol since I had sent less than 20 rounds down the pipe. I live in Hawaii where the humidity currently hovers between 55% - 65 during this time of the year. My firearms are stored in a safe with large packs of dessicant. Although the safe is not hermitically sealed, I don't believe that firearms are exposed to high humidity.

If the ammo is truly "non-corrosive", I'm thinking that its gotta be the by-products in the barrel that attract moisture. The bullets appear to be cast lead. That would leave the primer and power by-products as the chief culprits.

 

[ol' scratch]

Corrosive ammunition? I have lots of experience with it. It sounds to me like someone snuck a few rounds of corrosive ammo into the box you shot. Most surplus ammunition made in western countries has been non-corrosive since 1954. The bloc countries used it a lot longer. As far as the Tula, that should all be non-corrosive. Where do you keep your firearms? Is it climate controlled?

As far as cleaning my firearms, I am a firm believer in loving something to death. I only clean most of my guns after a season of shooting, they are exposed to harsh weather or when I am shooting corrosive ammo.

To understand corrosive ammunition, you need to understand that the act of shooting the firearm doesn't hurt the firearm. When the primer ignites, the priming compound creates sodium chloride. It amounts to basically table salt. Salt needs water to neutralize it. I use a mixture of one part Hydrogen Peroxide, one part Murphy's Oil Soap and one part alcohol. I run patches down the bore until there is very little powder residue on the patches, then wipe down all the surface areas with the mixture and chase it with oil. I have recently started using Gunzilla as a follow up. Then I clean like I normally would. A water-based product is the key.

 

[Frank44]

I'm not as good about cleaning my firearms as I used to be. If I suspect that I have fired corrosive ammo, then my firearm gets immediate cleaning. I agree that all firearms should be cleaned soon after shooting corrosive ammo or not. There are a number of factors that can cause rust and pitting other than the ammo itself.

 

[Ignition Override]

In my SKS only the small shaft in the piston has had a little bit of rust, after not cleaning this part for a few months.
The action/bore is cleaned within a week or less.
This was after using a few hundred rounds of modern Wolf or Monarch.

 

[Reloadron]

My firearms are stored in a safe with large packs of desiccant. Although the safe is not hermetically sealed, I don't believe that firearms are exposed to high humidity.

Now that is strange. You have desiccant in there the RH should be below whatever the general humidity is. I have the same and periodically bake out my desiccant. Been meaning to put a small humidity gauge in there but never had a problem. I use the small strips that change color for now. Something got in there or you were the victim of a strange reaction. All the other contents look fine right?

Ron

 

[WardenWolf]

I agree that it sounds like someone reused the box and put some corrosive ammo in it. You should have known better than to use unknown ammo in your gun. For all you know they could have been Bubba's special reloads.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

I wonder sometimes about Russian primers; do they ever 'sneak' some old corrsive ones in sometimes? You'd think not, right???

 

[wv109323]

All civilian and military corrosive ammo in the United States was produced before 1955. If the Colt ammo was produced after that it was not corrosive.
I doubt that the Tula was corrosive either, I know that their primers are not corrosive but I can not say about the ammo.

 

[Mr. Farknocker]

Hard to say if the ammo is pre-1955. It could be. Box looks pretty old (assuming the ammo came from the box) but it does say noncorrosive. I'll check the stamping on the cases to see what info I can gleen off of them.

As far as the ammo being reloads, i guess its possible but i highly doubt it. It was owned by my father's 96 year old aunt who acquired it from her husband's estate when he passed away in the 70's. She passed in '96. Based on her and her hubby's background I highly doubt they were reloaders.

 

[Mr. Farknocker]

The rounds look like vintage steel cased Remingtons. My guess is that it's from the '50s.

 

[JustinJ]

I seriously doubt the Tula is corrosive. How long did the Saiga sit because had it actually been corrosive it would most likely have created fairly heavy rust in very little time. Also, guns can rust, some metals and finishes much easier and faster than others, without ever being exposed to corrosive ammo. Are you near the coast?

 

[Mr. Farknocker]

I think I understand what happened.

I stripped the cases down in preperation of reloading them. There were a few cases that I deprimed that required a lot of pressure. When I examined these cases after the primers were removed, I noticed that the primer pockets looked like the pockets you would associate with Berdan primed cases with two small holes in the webing. There was also a hole in the center but i believe that the hole was created with the decapping pin. The fact that the webbing looked a little mangled supports my belief that the center hole did not exist before decapping and that I punched the hole with the decapping pin when I deprived the cases. Also, the primers themselves did not appear to have an anvil. If these rounds were indeed Berdan-primed rounds, that would account for the corrosion in the barrel of my Colt 1903. For some strange reason, I always thought that corrosive ammo was a problem with long guns, not handguns. Why? I have no idea. That was certainly a case of learning the hard way.

Bottom line: If it corrodes, it's corrosive ammo.

 

[Fishslayer]

I'm beginning to think that I should treat all ammo as corrosive and clean my firearms immediately after use just to be on the safe side.

Does anyone have a similar experience or have an understanding as to whats going with these non-corrosive corrosive ammo?

I have HEARD (unsubstantiated) that the Russians will occasionally use corrosive primers if they are OOS on the modern stuff. I don't shoot a lot of it but when I do I always clean immediately as though it was corrosive.

Most foreign milsurp is going to be corrosive.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Sorry for your damage; I am the custodian of a much-loved 1903 (1925) that is a family heirloom and that our daughters (age 8 and 10) love to shoot even more than the Ruger MkII I bought hoping it would be a cheaper-shooting substitute. Turns out, good as it is, it isn't a Colt Pocket. Really NOTHING else is a Colt Pocket. See how she shoots in spite of the harm to her bore, I bet well just the same. And thanks for making us all the wiser and aware. I did a simliar flub years back with old corrosive .45 ACP in my SA 1911a1 ~ pocked the chamber and first inch or so of the bore a bit. Really, not a big deal. Live and learn.

 

[Mr. Farknocker]

I went back over the cases last night just to make sure that the ammo I fired included the Berdan primed cases and concluded that they were not fired in my handgun. All of the ammo fired through the handgun used Boxer primers or primers that looked like Boxer primers.

Were corrosive primers produced in both Berdan and Boxer primers?

 

[MagnunJoe]

Never shot Tula but I have shot her twin brand Wolf -same factory- thousands of rounds in just about all of my guns. Never a single issue besides the fact that it runs dirty.
Just in case, I always clean my guns within hours of shooting them. I use CLP Break free and never had any rust @ I live in southern Florida.