.357/.38 die problem

[jr_roosa]

I'm having a terrible time getting good neck tension with my .357/.38spl die. I can push the bullets in with my finger, and even with a pretty agressive roll crimp I can spin most bullets inside the case.

It's an old C&H carbide die. I've tried a bunch of different brass brands, and various bullets:

Winchester nickel and regular brass
Remington nickel and regular brass
Norma brass
Home cast .358 WCs that are run through a sizer
Commercial .358 SWCs that guage properly
Hornady .357 HP/XTPs that guage properly

The outside of the brass guages .376 after sizing.

The inside is .356 even before running through the expander die.

The expander measures .358 and the inside of the carbide die is .376.

Where is my problem?

I thought is was my nickel brass being thin and stiff, but now that I reloaded some regular brass I'm worried that I need a new die, which is a bummer because I don't really shoot the magnum very much.

Thanks.

-J.

 

[Ol` Joe]

I'm having a terrible time getting good neck tension with my .357/.38spl die. I can push the bullets in with my finger, and even with a pretty agressive roll crimp I can spin most bullets inside the case.

You may be over crimping.
Too much crimp will cause the case wall to bulge behind the edge of the mouth and actually loosen its grip on the bullet. Try seating a bullet and checking for movement prior to applying the crimp, if it won`t move without a crimp, you`re overdoing it for sure.

 

[Walkalong]

I just checked the ID of the carbide ring on one of my .38/.357 sizers, and it is right at .370. A full .006 smaller than yours.

Is it a .38 S&W sizer? Not .38 S&W Spl?

My .38 S&W sizer is right at .376

.38 S&W article

.38 S&W Dimensions

 

[jr_roosa]

Ol Joe: it will do it before I crimp, but I see what you mean about the crimp ruining good neck tension. I usually go pretty gentle with the crimp.

Walkalong: Hmmmm, maybe it is. That's worth a check. Never thought of that.

I was really doubting that this was wear since I can't imagine wearing out a carbide die, and I know that my dad put maybe put a couple thousand rounds through it at most.

-J.

Edit: Nope, it says ".38 special tngstn carbide" Good thinking though. I could see picking up the die off the shelf and never noticing the subtle difference. Kinda like buying .45 GAP instead of .45 ACP and not noticing until you get home.

 

[Steve C]

Check the expander diameter, that is what sets the ID of the case neck after resiing during the expanding and belling operation. You may have an oversized expander used for lead bullets. While Remington brass is a bit thinner than some others and usually is easier to seat and size the Winchester brass is normally very tight as its thicker.

 

[Walkalong]

If your sizer will not size Winchester (thick) brass enough, assuming the expander is not oversized, then the sizer is oversized. Easy check. Try seating some bullets before using the expander.

My .38 & .357 expanders are polished down to the point they really only bell. My last .357 sizer I bought was a Dillon. I wanted to try a Dillon sizer, and was hoping it would be tighter than my Lee or RCBS sizer, but it wasn't. I don't want to go as tight as the Lee undersized die.

If your sizers carbide inserts ID is .370, it is oversized.

 

[loadedround]

Like Steve C had said, check your expander die. You may be expanding your cases to much and your seater/crimer dies can't compensate for excess expanding. Just expand/bell your cases just enough to be able to just start your bullet into the case mouth easily. Funnel shaped case mouths are a no no!

 

[fecmech]

I have a CH sizer that sizes to .376 o.d. and a Lyman that sizes to .372 o.d. and have no problems with either one holding bullets. I lightly taper crimp my .357 rounds (Lyman/Keith 173 gr@1200 fps) and the bullets don't walk out of the case from recoil in the revolver. I would be looking towards the expander.

 

[jr_roosa]

I'm going to polish my expanders down a bit and see. From what you all are saying I'm guessing that my sizer is not quite aggressive enough.

I think that the solution will be a new RCBS sizer die...maybe a whole new set.

Oh well there goes another $60.

-J.

 

[Walkalong]

When I wore the nitride coating off a Hornady 9MM sizer, in less than 2000 rounds, I ordered a Lee carbide sizer. I used it for many, many, years. They work fine, and are relatively cheap. Way less than $60.

 

[rcmodel]

The expander measures .358

That right there is your problem.

The expander is .001" bigger then the bullets jacketed bullets, and probably the same size as the lead bullets. That ain't gonna work.

Turn it down to .353" - .354" and you should be good.

rc

 

[Walkalong]

I believe he has two problems. Oversized sizer and expander. If he will size some cases and seat a couple of bullets without using the expander, he will find out quickly enough.

I barely get enough neck tension to suit me, even with my expander polished down enough to only bell, and my sizer is .006 smaller than his.

 

[jr_roosa]

Yeah, my first thought was the expander, and so I pulled it out (this die set has an expander on the decapping spindle too) and sized without.

After that I just barely kissed the mouth with the .358 part of the expander to get the bullets to start...no bell at all...and they can be pushed all the way in.

I'll try taking the expander down a few thousandths and see if it helps any.

I think I may be in the market for a new sizer die. I'll probably get a whole new set because my crimp die doesn't work as smoothly as I'd like.

Thanks for your help.

-J.

 

[Walkalong]

Keep those dies. I bet they'll load .38 S&W like a champ.

 

[jr_roosa]

Update...

So there are 2 identical expanders in these dies...one that holds the depriming pin, and another without pin in the expander die.

I polished the expander expander down to about .355 and it doesn't really touch the case unless there's a dent.

In the process of taking the decapper apart to polish it, I broke it. Apparently 20 years in my dad's basement fused the expander to the threads. A little pile of powdered rust came out where the threads sheared off.

So, now the sizing die only sizes, I need to use my .30-06 die for decapping, and the expander die only bells the case mouth (just a little)

I get many more cases with acceptable neck tension, but still it seems a little weak. About 1/10 are loose enough to spin or be set back with a firm push.

Final verdict...the expanders were opening up the brass too much, both in the sizing die and then in the expanding die. I think this double expansion was showing up in my nickel brass more than in my regular brass, but who knows why.

I also think that the .376 inner diameter sizer is just too big. The oversized carbide sizer wasn't helping the problem.

I'll probably get the RCBS set (the whole set is only $10 more than the sizer alone) once I feel like I need to load up some more for this pistol. I just ordered a holster for it, so hopefully it will spend more time shooting than sitting in its case. Until then, I'll limp along with my C&H die set.

Thanks for all of your help.

-J.