Problems with Pietta 1851 brass Navy .44

[mykeal]

In another thread member theblackmeow posted the following:

Uberti doesn't make a repro '51 navy in .44 ca, as far as I know. HOWEVER, Pietta does, but w/brass frame. I hate to tell you, but I've had numerous problems w/the Pietta .44 Navy. The sear spring broke fairly quickly, followed recently by the mainspring. Nipples foul often, but that is probably not their fault. I should replace them w/stainless ones. The cylinder action is loose compared to the Uberti .36 I have. It shoots straight, though, once we have ignition. Looks like the person selling the revolver you bought wasn't paying very close attention to the info on the box. Also, Pietta usually stamps its name on the barrel, while Uberti doesn't (at least on mine it didn't). Good luck. I'm trying to find out if anyone can steer me to some quick fixes for these problems myself.

In order to help him with his request and not hijack the other thread, I started this new one.

theblackmeow -

Pietta, and some other Italian replica makers, went through a period of poor quality during which 'soft' action parts became almost legendary. I suspect your gun is one of those. I'm not sure if those broken parts you mentioned have been replaced or not, so assuming the worst:

Replacement parts for the broken ones can be obtained from at least two places:
VTI Gun Parts, and
Dixie Gun Works
An excellent tutorial on disassembling and reassembling the Colt single action revolvers can be found on this forum under the thread titled, "Sticky - Black Powder Essentials".

As for the nipples frequently fouling, replacement with Ampco bronze (Treso brand) nipples is recommended. While it might seem they'd be more prone to fouling due to their smaller touch hole diameter many people have found the opposite to be true. Just changing materials to stainless steel nipples may also help some.

With regard to the loose cylinder: it is not unusual to encounter a brass framed Colt replica with a loose cylinder. Unfortunately the brass frame, and in particular the recoil shield, can be damaged by repeated impact from 'heavy' loads. I suspect that's the case with your gun. You may be able to see slight impact marks on the recoil shield from the cylinder. This not only increases the distance between the barrel forcing cone and the recoil shield (often described as 'stretching' the frame), it can also loosen the cylinder base pin or arbor. This is seen as excessive end and/or side play in the cylinder.

Short of replacing the frame and cylinder base pin there is little that can be done to correct this problem. The gun should only be used with light loads in the future; that will slow down or stop the frame erosion and prolong the life of the gun.

 

[theblackmeow]

re: Pietta problems

Thanks very much Mykeal, for your info. It is really appreciated. So, from what you wrote, I gather that the quality of internals of the older Piettas suffered some. I am understanding you to say, then, that the replacement parts are going to be made of higher quality materials & will be more durable. I wasn't surprised to see the sear spring break (the one on my Uberti 1851 did the same) but I was surprised that the main spring broke. Anyway, I have more questions: can one buy a case hardened steel frame to replace the brass one, or is that out of the question. I looked for replacement frames but none were listed. Also, is there such a thing as an upgrade kit, where traditional springs can be replaced w/coil or piano wire springs? Or is this something a trained gunsmith would need to do? I would like to tune my revolvers up as much as possible, but am not a trained gunsmith nor do I have much money. At any rate, thanks again for the info! Also, am looking for a Ruger Old Army I can afford. Don't mind if its used some or has wear marks. I just want a Remington-type BP revolver & the O.A. is the best I can find, according to the current info. Thanks again!

 

[Misfire99]

I just picked up an 1851 confederate navy in 44 cal. The trigger, it is also the sear, had the sear part extremely damaged. It looked like the metal just rolled up where it was engaged with the hammer. The hammer looked to have no wear at all. It also had what looked like a worn hand and a broken wedge screw. I ordered parts for it, it's a Pietta, from Taylor & Co.
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/accessories.tpl
The parts cost around eleven dollars. I'm waiting for them to arrive before I can put it back together. This pistol came with an extra cylinder and powder flask, half full of powder I might add, for seventy dollars. I am wondering if I should try to harden the trigger before I install it.

 

[mykeal]

theblackmeow - I have not seen steel frames offered for sale as replacement parts. Theoretically there's no problem with replacing the frame; one would, of course, have to be able to remove the base pin and install it in the new frame, which is difficult to do correctly. So it can be done, but I don't know where you'd get the parts.

Heinie makes a wire spring replacement for the trigger/bolt spring; that's the only 'upgrade' spring I'm aware of, and it is highly recommended. It's available from Brownell's:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=6875&title=SINGLE%20ACTION%20TRIGGER/BOLT%20SPRING
They say it's for the Colt Single Action Army but it will fit any of the Colt single action revolvers.

The current replacement parts available from VTI, Dixie and others are generally better quality materials; some have reported fit problems (parts being oversize) but since the originals were hand fitted it's not unexpected that some minor filing/sanding is occasionally required. In fact, I always disassemble each new gun and stone polish the action mating surfaces to get a smoother action.

Complete disassembly and replacement of the action parts is well within the skill level of almost anyone who can understand simple hand tools. The Colt single action design is genius in it's simplicity. The sticky message on black powder essentials contains simple, well tested disassembly and assembly instructions. The only caveat is to invest in a good set of hollow ground gunsmith's screwdrivers; they are necessary to prevent damaging the screws that hold everything together. In fact, if you're buying parts, buy some replacement screws as well.

I understand Dixie sells replacement parts kits that include one each of the action parts and screws. If you can find it on their site it seems that might be a good investment. By the way, the action parts on all the Colt single action models are identical, so an 1851 Navy set will fit on an 1860 Army and vice versa.

The Ruger Old Army is an excellent gun, without any doubt the best bp percussion revolver ever made at any price. Unfortunately they are not cheap. All I can suggest is keep your eye on the auction sites; good ROA shooters do come up now and then.

Misfire99 - an excellent buy - congratulations, sir! There is nothing wrong with attempting to harden the new trigger if you have the means to do so. However, I'd be surprised if the new trigger wasn't already hardened. I'd be inclined to just install it.

 

[Snaggletooth]

Mykeal, I have a Pietta in .44 Cal that I put together from parts from different Sources, The barrel came from Wisconsin,the Cyl fron Pa and the grip from Missouri.. All fit together without problem and its a shooter. I bought the parts through ebay , but they quit selling them for some crazy CYA reason. If anyone knows where I can find a site that sells parts, Id like to know their address. Im dealing with a man in Corpus Christi now that sells used parts. Those I bought on ebay were new parts

 

[theblackmeow]

re: steel frame replacement for brass frame

Mykeal:
Thanks for the tips. I found that Taylors & Co, thru the link you provided, has a very large assortment of BP parts for Uberti & Pietta. They list for sale steel frames, both finished & unfinished, for the .36 & the .44 versions of the '51 navy Colt repro. As a matter of fact, they list all kinds of spare parts in every possible configuration. I also really appreciate the lead for the wire trigger/bolt/sear spring replacement. That's what I was looking for. Thanks again for your help!

 

[mykeal]

Snaggletooth - Check out the two sites mentioned in the first post in this thread (just click on the names).