Progressive Press Double Charge ????

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For my own self interest I have three questions about the dangers of progressive reloading.

Has anybody ever had a double charge in a progressive press?
Did you ever have powder stick in a drop tube?
What are the chances and why?
 
Of course both of those things can happen. If one carelessly loads without paying attention they will have an accident sooner or later. I see every single charge I seat a bullet over, not relying on any mechanical safety etc.

Chances of powder bridging in a drop tube? Depends on the drop tube and the powder type.

Chances of a double charge? Directly related to the operators degree of focus.
 
A friend has a Dillon 650, with all the add-ons. He's had more squibs than I can count. I've warned him that he's prime to get a ka-boom. Attention, attention, attention when using any press- single, turret, or progressive.

Chuck
 
Did you ever have powder stick in a drop tube?
What are the chances and why?

In the tens of thousands of rounds that I've loaded on my Dillon, only once. I was using a stick powder for 223, and the powder didn't drop. The next drop overfilled, making what had happened clear. I polished the inside of the powder funnel, and haven't had any trouble since. I was paying attention, so nothing bad happened.

Walkalong points out the oft neglected obvious; pay attention to what you're doing. Look at each case, and see where the powder level is before you put a bullet in there. A progressive speeds things up, but it doesn't negate any of your responsibility as a safety observer.
 
Autoindexing makes it a little harder to double charge (not impossible though).
The powder checky thingy that Dillon has is nice. Another layer of security.

I chose powders based on how well they meter in my XL650. Plenty of powders to chose from so it usually isn't an issue. Basically no stick powders, only ball or small flake. Never had any stick, but again I am picky about which powders I use. H335/748/TAC/BLC(2) are the ticket for 223 in a Dillon Press.

What cartridge are you loading for anyways?
 
I'm loading 38 SW, 38Spl and 357 mags only. I have an idea to prevent it from happening on the progressive press and I really would like to find out if this preventative step is worth some research.
 
A friend has a Dillon 650, with all the add-ons. He's had more squibs than I can count. I've warned him that he's prime to get a ka-boom. Attention, attention, attention when using any press- single, turret, or progressive.
Chuck

Sounds like your friend didn't set his 650 up correctly.

LGB
 
I don't use a progressive press, but I have had powder stick in a drop tube.

I was loading .223 with IMR 4064 (stick powder), and at one point, I had a case overflow.

I immediately checked the previous couple of cases, and sure enough, the case I had just filled prior to the overflow case had virtually no powder in it, whereas the other 5 previous ones were fine.

I was using a Hornady LNL powder measure, so if it was hooked into a progressive press and you weren't paying attention, that probably would have resulted in a squib and an overcharged round.

If I wasn't paying attention (though a powder overflow is pretty hard to miss, especially when the sprinkling of overflow powder makes a lot of noise in the bag I place below the measure), I could have created a squib and an overcharged round on my single stage press.

Though I don't use a progressive press, I suppose the real dangers that would exist do so because the process is more streamlined, which can enable to user to become more complacent in the reloading process, and that's where accidents could occur.
 
I'm loading 38 SW, 38Spl and 357 mags only. I have an idea to prevent it from happening on the progressive press and I really would like to find out if this preventative step is worth some research.
Well I don't know how much harder you could make it on a Dillon XL650
-It's auto indexing.
-It has a lock out on the powder measure, so basically it won't drop two charges without a near full operating stroke. See the first point, you have to move the handle far enough so that it indexes in order to reset the measure.
-The powder checker thing is pretty handy. If setup properly, it'll indicate a double charge or a low charge.

If you manage to double charge an XL650, you were really asking for it.
 
Has anybody ever had a double charge in a progressive press?
Did you ever have powder stick in a drop tube?
What are the chances and why?

I have loaded tens of thousands, perhaps a hundred thousand pistol rounds on my Dillion 550B. Never had a double charge. I am of the opinion that you are less likely to have a double charge on a progressive than with a single stage.

There are simply more things to do, more things to distract you, when you are dumping powder into cases in a loading block. Sure, you are supposed to examine all cases in the loading block, but even then, maybe your mind drifts.

On a progressive, for you to have a double charge, something obvious gets out of sequence.

As for rifle calibers, I think I had powder bridging with stick powders in my .223 powder funnel. Next case overfilled. But it was very long ago.

I had issues with AA2520 and the .223. Accurate Arms has gone through so many powder makers, each darn lot of AA powder is different from the last. One old lot, that I am still using, is so dusty, that it clogs up the .223 powder horn. I was running Q-Tips through the thing, every so often, to clean out the soot. I never had an overpressure charge, but the charge variation was higher than what I wanted. It would still shoot well in one hundred yard matches. Target below.

I am currently going through a bunch of chinese made AA2520, and that stuff hardly has any dust. Go figure.

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the dangers of progressive reloading.

None of those three things are unique to progressive reloading. 99% of the issues I've had are operator related and not related to the performance of the machine. I've never had a double charge on any press I've loaded on. Never had a stick bridge on me, but I don't load much stick powder since I've always found a ball or flake that I like better.
 
I’ve never had powder stick in the drop tube but I have had extruded powders bridge over the case mouth and then spill when the ram was lowered. If you always do complete strokes a double can’t happen. The Dillon 1050 has a ratchet type device that will not allow anything other than a complete stroke.

A friend has a Dillon 650, with all the add-ons. He's had more squibs than I can count.
If he had a squib with a 650 and powder check die (the first add on I'd get) he should quit reloading or get his hearing checked.
 
Yep, not even the Dillon 550B is idiot proof.

Yep, I've had probably two double charges :eek: in the last 10 years or so with mine. I don't recommend it. It can be, well, let's say.... exciting. :what:

Cause? Interrupted work. Whenever I have to pause, I finish what's already in each station. However..... If you have a problem like finding a berdan primed case and break up your routine while you correct it, you CAN make a mistake. This is **NOT** Dillon's fault. It's operator error.

If you use fast burning, compact powders like TightGroup or Bullseye, and you're loading charges that are small relative to the case - like a few grains in a .357mag round, you can drop a second charge in there and not even notice until you're at the range. :uhoh: Very bad.

If the Dillon auto indexed, it would be less an expsure, but the 550B wasn't designed to operate that way. You could create the same problem throwing charges on cases in a loading block.

One way around this exposure is to use powders that are less dense, so if you ever mistakenly double charge, it'll spill and you will see it. Always remember to clear the loading stations when you have to leave the press.
 
That kind of stuff scares me to even think about. My progressive press is a Square Deal and it's possible to visually see powder in any pistol case I load. It's part of my process to visually verify every single case as it rotates to the next die. Not sure if you're able to do this.

If you're not, I am a strong proponent of PROCESS. Do not let yourself be interrupted, and if you are, be SURE and verify everything when you come back to the press. Even on a single stage press, if you're using a powder mill (or whatever you're using), you still have a funnel on the cartridge case. Develop a set process for yourself that you do not vary! The way I do it: After dropping powder through the funnel, I IMMEDIATELY move the funnel to the next cartridge. The funnel is never sitting on a case that has powder in it.

Then, before seating bullets, I do an additional visual scan of the loading block, where you'll see any powder level that's not right.

In 40 years of reloading, I have not had a single bad reload. I've had primers fail to detonate, but never a reload problem. Develop a process and do not vary it.
 
Here's another example--with the Lee Load-Master

Like with the others, it's harder to do--but I did do it, I think. Since I am not familiar with other progressive presses (except for the 550B, which I've seen and operated in the store, but not loaded on), I'll simply comment on the Load-Master--which I own, and use.

The load-master primes in station 2, on the downstroke. Its indexer is a simple lever that can be readily removed--and, at some points in the stroke, allows for reversing the stroke.

Powder is dropped in station 3. The Lee Auto-disk measures are expander operated. Those of us who use the Lee measures know that if they are being spring actuated for return, the disk / bar comes back to pick up a second charge the moment the case mouth clears the PTED on the ram drop. Some years ago, Lee updated the powder measure operation to remove the spring operation on their two progressives--i.e., the Pro 1000 and the Load-Master. They now have a rod and spring assembly that will manually pull back the measure to pick up another charge only at the very bottom of the ram downstroke.

The change took care of what is arguably a "design flaw" on a progressive press--that is, powder-drop dependent only on case mouth insertion or reinsertion, with a possibility that no indexing as occurred. However, it can still happen, AFAICT, on the manual-return measure.

If all elements of the system are not fine tuned, the operator can get the powder measure return as he begins to seat the primer--and therein lies the problem. The Load-Master primer insertion and seating can be problematic--and you can feel the resistance of a tilted / flipped / sideways primer (usually too late to avoid damage, or a crushed primer), so the operator reverses the stroke. Then it is the drill to clear the primer at the anvil and repair / solve the primer feed, etc. If the measure pull-back has not been properly set up--i.e., with a too-short chain, so to speak--you can get a double charge. Further, if the measure does not have a properly-tightened hopper or has a worn disk / bar, the weight of the pullback chain alone can draw back the disk to pick up another charge.

At this point the case at the #3 (expander / powder drop) should be removed and cleared. If you don't--or if you "fiddle" with the primer and case there, without indexing--you'll get a double charge.

I think that I doubled-charged a case last year when I neglected to do that--it was a simple primer-feed problem (one was just not pushed on to the anvil, because of insufficient primers to do the gravity feed), and I reversed the stroke, filled the primer tray--and ran the case through without indexing.

At least, that is the only explanation I can come up with.

added on edit: Note that I did not check the case visually--which is the real solution to avoiding double charges on a progressive. My excuse--between the case type (long and narrow) and the press size, it is virtually impossible to do without pulling the case. I need to rig a dentist's-mirror-and-light gizmo, I guess.

Personally, I consider auto-indexing to be a requirement for a press to be "truly" a progressive, so I've never been enamored of the 550. However, I fully understand there are 1000s of 550 users who do just fine; it probably really just matters to learn your routines well, no matter the press brand.

Jim H.
 
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I think part of the reason I've had good luck is because I have separated a lot of functions. Loading to me is perhaps more than half of the hobby called shooting and reloading.... I reload because it's fun and it's a challenge, not to save money.

I don't use all the functions of the Square Deal. For instance, I prime my cases separately, with an old bench-mounted RCBS unit, one-by-one. That allows me to carefully inspect every case and actually feel the primer being seated. As far as the "progressive" press.... I insert it at station 2, but only to bell the case and drop the powder. I've already sized and primed the case at an earlier time. (Yes, I know that is totally unacceptable to someone who loads for cost and time savings.)
 
No matter what press you use, you gotta always peep into the case before you stick a bullet on.

Tom
 
No matter what press you use, you gotta always peep into the case before you stick a bullet on.
A man after my own heart.

It is possible to double charge a case no matter what press you use, whether it is a single stage, a turret, a progressive, or whether it's auto or not.

SEE each and every charge you seat a bullet over. ;)
 
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