Varget, progressive presses and small cases

[JEBruns]

Wondering if anyone has luck using Varget in a progressive press for .223? I have some loads I like with it for .223, but I have to meter the powder by hand for them as that long stick powder jams/bridges too often in my Dillon RL1100. Kind of tedious for loading 100's of rounds. So is there a way to make it work consistently in a progressive? Different powder drop, etc?

 

[Chuck R.]

Nope, it's a stick powder, just like the other stick powders. When I want to load .223 on my 550 I use TAC or CFR223, both meter well in a Dillon.

I normally use a Harrell's to drop a .1 or .2 short, then trickle the rest. My setup and I'm loading Varget in .223

 

[jmorris]

You can try other measures, I tried the LNL and RCBS ones, they didn’t do what I wanted though. If I am loading with progressives I choose powders both the gun and presses like. For 223, that would be Winchester 748, Ramshot TAC, xtermanator, etc.

You can crunch through extruded powders with most any measure but bridging at the .223 case mouth will continue to be an issue.

 

[Kaldor]

Wondering if anyone has luck using Varget in a progressive press for .223? I have some loads I like with it for .223, but I have to meter the powder by hand for them as that long stick powder jams/bridges too often in my Dillon RL1100. Kind of tedious for loading 100's of rounds. So is there a way to make it work consistently in a progressive? Different powder drop, etc?

Ive seen more issues with cutting kernels in the Dillon powder measures than with the RCBS or Hornady. The RCBS and Hornady seem to do alot better with cutting kernels, but Ive crushed 223 cases in my LnL with my Hornady drop and 223, so its still a crap shoot.

That being said, the Lee Auto Drum likely does better than everything with powders like Varget, and cheaply I might add for like $55. I just wouldnt use for fine ball powders as it tends to leak.

Beyond that? Find a powder that meters better. Short cut extrudeds like 8208, Benchmark, meter great and with no drama.

 

[JEBruns]

You can try other measures, I tried the LNL and RCBS ones, they didn’t do what I wanted though. If I am loading with progressives I choose powders both the gun and presses like. For 223, that would be Winchester 748, Ramshot TAC, xtermanator, etc.

You can crunch through extruded powders with most any measure but bridging at the .223 case mouth will continue to be an issue.

Yep, that's what I've been doing. CFE223, H335 both flow well. Just wondering if there some magic reloading trick for the Varget. I will use up the Varget on my 6.5CM loads.

 

[MikeInOr]

Wondering if anyone has luck using Varget in a progressive press for .223? I have some loads I like with it for .223, but I have to meter the powder by hand for them as that long stick powder jams/bridges too often in my Dillon RL1100. Kind of tedious for loading 100's of rounds. So is there a way to make it work consistently in a progressive? Different powder drop, etc?

What do you mean by "jams/bridges"? I don't have any problems dispensing Varget on my 650 but, as you stated, it isn't the most consistent metering powder.

 

[Kingcreek]

Ball powders are just a lot easier. H335, A2230, etc

 

[Blue68f100]

What do you mean by "jams/bridges"? I don't have any problems dispensing Varget on my 650 but, as you stated, it isn't the most consistent metering powder.

That referred to when the powder plugs/clogs up in the neck, and does not flow into the main body of the cartridge. Happens with small calibers and stick/extruded powders.

 

[MikeInOr]

That referred to when the powder plugs/clogs up in the neck, and does not flow into the main body of the cartridge. Happens with small calibers and stick/extruded powders.

That must by why I use 2230 for .223 and Varget in my larger caliber cases. It has been so long I forgot why I do this, now I know.

 

[cfullgraf]

The only rifle I load on a progressive is 204 Ruger and I use CFE223 powder.

I load Varget and H4895 (similar shaped stick powder as Varget) in cartridges from 17 Rem to 30-06. Getting the powder to drop is a bitch in the smaller caliber cases with each of my powder measures.

I have an RCBS Uniflow, Hornady L-N-L, and Harrell Custom 90. All cut kernels but they actually through reasonable powder charges. But, with the small calibers, I still get bridging at the transition between the powder measure and the case.

Operating the powder measure more slowly helps but I still need to make sure all the powder has dropped.

I’m not sure the bridging problem with stick powders can be solved.

But, I have not tried a Dillon powder measure. I have a Dillon BL550 and use either the Uniflow or an Redding 10-X on it. The Dillon measure operates differently from the drum style measures.

But comments posted previously about the Dillon do not sound promising.

 

[JEBruns]

I’m not sure the bridging problem with stick powders can be solved.

But, I have not tried a Dillon powder measure. I have a Dillon BL550 and use either the Uniflow or an Redding 10-X on it. The Dillon measure operates differently from the drum style measures.

But comments posted previously about the Dillon do not sound promising.

I've not tried Varget in .223 on a progressive with anything but a Dillon powder drop. Doesn't work well, and makes a heck of mess when it bridges.

 

[Chuck R.]

Another issue is capacity. When I load extruded powders, to include Varget, I'm often using a 10" drop tube to let the powder settle before seating the bullet. That's just not happening on a progressive press.

My Harrel's has very sharp cutting edges, but will still occasionally hang and end up with a couple tenths of variance.

 

[jmorris]

What do you mean by "jams/bridges"?

If we think of extruded powders like little logs, think of it as a log jam at the mouth of the case or small part of the powder funnel. It happens from time to time, old “long cut” IMR 3031 was real bad about it. The good news is the no/partial charge is easy to spot because when you come to the handle up, part of the stroke, it generally shakes things free, dumping the charge out all over the shell plate…

 

[EricBu]

It's a powder that does not do well in most volume type measures, it does work just fine in a ChargeMaster. It's also a somewhat expensive powder, which encourages me to save it for match ammo, or my long distance ammo. IMHO, the deviation of the throw with a powder measure negates any benefit of using Varget on a progressive with a volumetric measure, so the best solution is to use a cheaper powder that meter's better or weight each charge and use a funnel. When I load 5.56 or .308 in my 550 with Varget, I replace the powder measure with funnel and powder die adapter (from area 419), and pour each charge after the chargemaster throws it. Takes away some of the tediousness, this would also work on a 750, 1100, or 1050. When I load for general target shooting on my 750 or my Revo, I use a different powder, either a Shooter's World powder like Tactical Rifle, or something like H335, or Win 748...which meter fine in a volume type measure.

 

[Varminterror]

I don’t mind cutting a few kernels, and typically I have found sufficiently forgiving nodes to be able to tolerate the imprecision of volumetric drops. Harrels drop FTW. So for anything I want to load fully automated in high volume on the progressive press, I don’t mind a little variability.

Reminding here: this has begun changing in the last handful of years, but for many, many years, the most precise groups ever fired in the world were THROWN, not weighed.

 

[Laphroaig]

Wondering if anyone has luck using Varget in a progressive press for .223? I have some loads I like with it for .223, but I have to meter the powder by hand for them as that long stick powder jams/bridges too often in my Dillon RL1100. Kind of tedious for loading 100's of rounds. So is there a way to make it work consistently in a progressive? Different powder drop, etc?

I had to chuckle when I read your post. I've been loading Varget for my .223 loads on a 550B for quite a few years, usually problem free. My throws are generally +/- .2 grains which seems to produce some very accurate 68/69 HPBT ammunition. The reason I chuckled was when I loaded a batch of 200 earlier this year, I had 2 drops bridge off, and spill powder all over the place. I can't remember the last time that happened!

4895 is about my limit for throwing stick powder.

 

[joneb]

I like using a dipper for stick powders this avoids cutting the kernels in a powder measure. This method will require you to weigh each charge which you will likely do anyway using a powder measure with extruded powders.

 

[JEBruns]

If we think of extruded powders like little logs, think of it as a log jam at the mouth of the case or small part of the powder funnel. It happens from time to time, old “long cut” IMR 3031 was real bad about it. The good news is the no/partial charge is easy to spot because when you come to the handle up, part of the stroke, it generally shakes things free, dumping the charge out all over the shell plate…

Exactly. Makes a big mess which means several minutes spent on cleaning things up, getting the primer carrier channel cleaned up, etc. Not fun.

 

[JEBruns]

so the best solution is to use a cheaper powder that meter's better or weight each charge and use a funnel. When I load 5.56 or .308 in my 550 with Varget, I replace the powder measure with funnel and powder die adapter (from area 419), and pour each charge after the chargemaster throws it. Takes away some of the tediousness,

Yeah, that's what I do with Varget. I find it tedious for loading a lot of rounds.

 

[JFrank]

but for many, many years, the most precise groups ever fired in the world were THROWN, not weighed.

IMO the PPC is the reason for that, with a nice little short range node. I cannot name anyone throwing charges in anything beyond short range/point blank shooting.

 

[Nature Boy]

I’ve loaded a lot of Varget progressively on my Dillon 650. You have to take your time and wait an extra beat or two at the top of the stroke to let the powder get through the case neck. If you get going too fast you’ll end up with a mess.

 

[jmorris]

but for many, many years, the most precise groups ever fired in the world were THROWN, not weighed.

IMO the PPC is the reason for that, with a nice little short range node. I cannot name anyone throwing charges in anything beyond short range/point blank shooting.

I agree, 100/200 yard benchrest doesn’t seem to be a game that requires “to the kernel” charge weights to shoot into the same hole.

 

[GW Staar]

It can certainly be done, and competitors are pretty serious about their pet loads.

That said there are more than a few of us who load without competition in mind. I've never had that desire....I Load and shoot for fun and to have reliable ammo on hand for any contingency....except competition. Then there's the lazy streak in me. So for .223 my only load is TAC.....it's accurate enough for me, and it's way easier to load in a progressive.

I do use a few "logs", but only in calibers less likely to bridge. Probably my only exception is .243 with 4850.... not the biggest "log"..... and I don't load that on a progressive, either.....yet. No guarantees it'll stay that way, but 50 years worth anyway....

 

[Nature Boy]

I cannot name anyone throwing charges in anything beyond short range/point blank shooting.

It’s pretty common for serious service rifle shooters who compete a lot to throw their loads and manny of them are using Varget with .223

 

[JEBruns]

I’ve loaded a lot of Varget progressively on my Dillon 650. You have to take your time and wait an extra beat or two at the top of the stroke to let the powder get through the case neck. If you get going too fast you’ll end up with a mess.

Tried that, although it's the bottom of the stroke with an 1100. Still had the problem.

I used to have the same kind of issue loading larger shot in 12ga shells. 4 or larger shot (late season pheasants) would tend to hang every now and then. I got used to banging on the side of the drop tube with a tool. But that was only for a few shells a year.