Proof of Ownership?

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ChileRelleno

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Do you carry proof of ownership for firearms in your immediate possession?

Scenario: For whatever reason(s) you come into contact with LE and it becomes known you're armed, either carrying or transporting.
LE runs a serial number check, and ask for proof of ownership, if not provided they confiscate/impound on the grounds they don't 'Know' who it actually belongs to.

Seems like it becoming more common to hear of legally possessed firearms being confiscated/impounded if the holder can't provide proof of ownership.
This could be very hard for some people to prove with paperless FtF private sales, gifted, inherited and otherwise acquired firearms.
This is definitely Unreasonable Search & Seizure and I fear its becoming a increasing fad for 2A unfriendly LEOs and/or various LE Depts.

I currently don't, but I might start doing so.
Start treat every firearm like a NFA item and carry paperwork (receipt) on it.
Another reason to start demanding some sort of basic receipt when making a private transaction.
 
I'm not clear on your scenario. Why would LEOs ask for proof of ownership? Because during the serial check it came back as stolen?
 
Seems like it becoming more common to hear of legally possessed firearms being confiscated/impounded if the holder can't provide proof of ownership.
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I'm afraid I can't recall ever hearing this, let alone it becoming more common. Where exactly are LEOs running a serial number check whenever they see a gun?
 
There's a whole helluva lot of guns out there with no serial numbers. Department store firearms come to mind, pre 68-something. I have six (soon to be seven) Sears guns with nothing more than a catalog/model number on them........
 
DogLegArms said:
I'm not clear on your scenario. Why would LEOs ask for proof of ownership? Because during the serial check it came back as stolen?
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If a SN# came back as stolen, then impoundment wouldn't be Unreasonable.
If your name isn't attached in some way to the firearms SN#, or State's registration, for whatever the reason, such as listed in the subsequent paragraph.
 
Jorg said:
I'm afraid I can't recall ever hearing this, let alone it becoming more common. Where exactly are LEOs running a serial number check whenever they see a gun?
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SN# checks happen as a matter of SOP in many States, where a handgun OC in California, and you'll experience it very quickly... At least until Jan 1st then OC will be illegal.

Strange I've heard of it happening, actually see it happen on various reality LE shows, e.g. Cops and etc.
Pulled over for speeding or what not, legally in possession, SN# ran, name not associated with SN#, asked for proof of ownership, firearm impounded till owner can show proof.
Happened to many people in New Orleans after Katrina, firearms confiscated, not allowed to claim without proof or ownership.... How many receipts/records lost in homes?
 
El Mariachi said:
There's a whole helluva lot of guns out there with no serial numbers. Department store firearms come to mind, pre 68-something. I have six (soon to be seven) Sears guns with nothing more than a catalog/model number on them........
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Careful, some LEO without a frikkin clue might come unglued and start spouting nonsense at you about how ALL firearms are SN#d... Build your own receiver and no SN# too, watch as they go ballistic, claiming SN# has been illegally removed.
Seen that happen first hand.
 
I just keep names and phone numbers of people I bought my guns from at shows. Whether or not they know why I'm getting their phone number is another thread.

Just protecting myself.
 
Is that even leagel? On a traffic stop I'd give the PO my cwp and my DL. I'm assuming when he gets the DL he'll want to keep my gun for the duration of the stop and probabely run the serial # at which point the gun would register to me in the system and every thing would be cool. All they have to do is run the number in their squad car to make sure myself and the gun are linked right?
 
I haven't personally heard of this, and can't see it really working out too well if it becomes a 'habit' of a certain department...A few times might slip by, but, happen enough and lawsuits are bound to get filed.

Unless your state has registration, and the gun isn't registered to you, or the gun comes up stolen, there's no reason for it to be confiscated unless it was used in a crime.
 
Hmmm.... very strange topic. We were out on BLM land just yesterday shooting all afternoon, and at one point we were approached by a BLM/Dept of Interior Enforcement Ranger. He asked what we were shooting, we showed him all the guns, talked guns a few minutes, he gave us some information on safe shooting on public lands, he asked our names/addresses/tel numbers, all of which we gave him. Then we talked guns and politics for about 15 minutes, he gave us a couple of trash bags and asked us to help keep the area clean by removing all our trash when done, and he left. Very friendly encounter.

Never did he ask to see SN's or anything else.

I have been stopped by state troopers several times in the past 4-5 years for my heavy foot, and each time I gave them my CHL and DL. One officer asked what kind of gun I was carrying and I told him, none of them ever asked to actually see the gun or about the SN.

I can't imagine an officer routinely running a SN without cause. Of course I live in Texas and New Mexico, pretty free states, so your mileage may vary. In fact, you might want to consider this next November.
 
Never heard of this and doubt if it's happening very many places...The same scenario could be applied to nearly any object. I don't carry around a pile of receipts for my cell phone, camera, farm tractor, ect.
 
I've had the drug task force guy in Junction TX run my SN when he pulled me over for going 2 mph over the speed limit and Ive had two separate DPS officers around Ozona TX run my SN when I was pulled over for speeding. Those are the only times I have had a firearm on me when I was pulled over and they all 3 ran the SN. The junction guy had me and my father sit in the back of his car for his protection as he ran our SN's.
 
It's a valid question

No, I can't cite any specific cases, but I've read about many cases where police confiscate firearms until proof of ownership is provided, and in the case of Katrina, even bills of sale, when available, were ignored by police.

Were there not several episodes in San Francisco and LA where police lurked outside gun shows and confiscated any firearms that were being taken into the show, unless the owner had proof of ownership on him at that moment? Was there not multiple episodes in New Orleans, both before and after Katrina, where city police routinely confiscated legally-owned firearms during traffidc stops, even when no citation was issued? If I recall, the police never gave receipts, and when the owner went to retrieve his gun, the police would claim that there was no record of such a gun being taken in.

The OP is addressing a valid issue.

- - - Yoda
 
I heard this is still happening in New Orleans and parts (if not all) of Louisiana. I also heard they don't like photocopies.
 
actually see it happen on various reality LE shows, e.g. Cops and etc.
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These shows are NOT educational...they are ENTERTAINMENT, and are edited as such. Just because you "saw it happen on COPS" doesn't mean its standard procedure. You see a sliver of the overall footage shot, seeing ONLY the story the producers want you to see. You can't watch a show like that and expect it to be representative of an average arrest or traffic stop. FWIW, in 34 years...22 of them being a gun owner, I have never been asked to prove ownership of any item...firearm or otherwise...to a law enforcement officer. You are innocent until proven guilty....you do NOT need to prove your innocence when you have done nothing wrong...they have to prove guilt, which is an entirely different propostion. Too, where would they be GETTING the info to "match" my serial number to me? Our state has no registration, so there IS no database to "match" me to my weapon. Personally, I think this is much ado about nothing, because if this were actually a common practice, we'd be aware of it as a group by now. Are serail numbers sometimes checked? Yes, I think we can all agree that it does happen. However, confiscation based on not being able to PROVE its indeed yours? THAT doesn't seem to be so commonplace, andf there is no legal basis for unjustly depriving someone of their property in such a manner
 
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If a SN# came back as stolen, then impoundment wouldn't be Unreasonable.
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If the SN comes back as stolen, then you have a legitimate problem. At the very least you will lose the gun. Can't really say as I have a beef with officers proceeding as with any case of clearly identifiable stolen property.

(Though I DO have a problem with a SOP serial-number check.)

If your name isn't attached in some way to the firearms SN#, or State's registration, for whatever the reason, such as listed in the subsequent paragraph.
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If there is no "hit" on a stolen gun serial number, and the officer didn't witness you climbing out of a gun store window or your neighbor's house with it, then the officer has absolutely no call whatsoever to assume your gun does not belong to you. Does he assume your shoes, pants, cell phone, gold watch, or other items you might have with you are stolen simply because you don't have a purchase receipt with you at the moment? That's absurd.

Confiscation without cause is tantamount to theft, and I would treat it the same way. Involve a lawyer and seek whatever legal reparations I could get. If it proved to be a systemic problem with a department or agency policy, I'd contact such groups as love to make life interesting/expensive for such troublesome "public servants."
 
i have never actually heard of any officer confiscating someone firearm solely because they didnt have proof of ownership.

Katrina is a slightly different story....from what i understand, they took everyones gun, proof of ownership or not......and i believe they only asked for proof when you went to claim it.....my guess is so they could try to get the right guns to the right people.
 
I'm so glad the presumtion of innocence is so well respected in this country. /cries inside
 
Katrina is a slightly different story....from what i understand, they took everyones gun, proof of ownership or not......and i believe they only asked for proof when you went to claim it.....my guess is so they could try to get the right guns to the right people.
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And what happened after Katrina has been the subject of federal lawsuits and major legislative and policy changes to prevent that kind of thing, throughout the country.
 
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