Public Range and Etiquette

[mgresh]

Never been to an uncontrolled range. If there is one near me I'm am unaware of it. From what you guys are saying, going to one sounds like a good way to get shot! I think I would rather pay a few bucks to shoot at a controlled range with RSO's and be able to enjoy the day safely. I'm not risking my life to save a few $

I agree. I'm not aware of any uncontrolled or free ranges either. That doesn't seem like something I would use. Thankfully I can shoot outdoors at home and at multiple friends properties. I just utilize an indoor range on occasion.

 

[TheSquire]

Public range?

 

[Axis II]

I don't really see any etiquette issues described in the OP. I see safety issues, on the one hand, and style of shooting issues on the other.

People handling firearms while others are downrange is a safety issue, particularly if the muzzles are pointed downrange. There are a variety of different range protocols that approach this in various ways, but I think it is unsafe to be downrange of strangers handling firearms. My preference for avoiding new perforations in my body is not a matter of social manners or class. That's safety. Either get the issue resolved or absent yourself from the vicinity.

Complaining because people are shooting fast is tiresome. You don't know what they're doing or working on. Maybe they are truly just dumping a mag for the thrill of it. Whatever, I don't enjoy that, but as long as the rounds are going downrage, who cares whether they hit the target? But there are lots of other reasons someone would shoot very rapidly, and appear to be having difficulty hitting the target. Maybe they are function-testing some aspect of their gun. Maybe they are trying to see how the dot tracks in their new optic. Maybe they are trying to learn to manage rapid-fire recoil effectively by running the gun hard and learning to hold the gun more still. Maybe they are shooting weak-shouldered and exploring their (in)ability to do so. You don't know, so quit complaining about it, unless it's a safety issue.

I'm assuming this was directed at me. When your 18yo on a public range at the 50yard range and your standing up in the weaver stance and letting rounds fly like a mad man and you keep hearing zing, zing, zing every 10th shot there is something wrong! It is unsafe! We aren't at war or training for war its some punk kid that's daddy bought him an AR15 with a bunch of lights, lasers, Acog scopes the kid probably doesn't know how to effectively use in the first place but just wants to show off. My main issue was we are in a pavilion and there are 20 benches inside and 10 outside and all 20 benches are filled and 2 of those benches were 2 fathers trying to teach very young kids to shoot and dumb and dumber want to pew, pew, pew as fast as they can and maybe hit a target 3 times hence the ricochet hitting the metal target holder and the ground below it and it was scaring the hell out of the small children that's father paid to use this range that has a certified NRA range officer who is supposed to keep things under control. Nothing like a muzzle break going off 5ft away 30 times. Use some common sense and move to the outside benches. It becomes a safety issue when you have a nervous feeling every time their gun goes off. It becomes a safety issue every time they dump 30rds as fast as they can with their little trigger slappy thingy and its scaring a child that is holding a rifle (great way to introduce kids to the sport). The range rules at every single place i have been too states no automatic fire, 3rd burst, etc because ITS UNSAFE!. I have fired a fully automatic M16 the sheriff swat team brought out and even the guys who do this day in and day out couldn't hold on target. Im good with the pop, pop, pop but when you put 30 5'' shoot n cee targets up and play lets see how many i can hit. NOT COOL!

My buddies build AK/AR and "run them through the paces" and they never do it when others who aren't part of our group are around. I wont let guys who go to my private club range in the country spray and pray because its disrespectful to the neighbors, unless that guns locked into a rest its too much jump to hit the target your aiming at and making sure you hit that target and beyond.

You want to "train" find a private club to train at or take some classes but don't put everyone else well being in danger cause you play too much call of duty. I have been on ranges with sheriff's, swat, military, etc and not one person has every sent 30rds at a man target as fast as they could.

Sorry if i offended anyone but i was taught by the people who introduced me to firearm and trained me who serve as u.s marshall instructors, swat commanders, military special forces if you want to play a game you buy a playstation. if you want to train you do it safely with no one else around . I have never really feared for my safety when at these ranges since 2007 but this one in particular i drove almost 2hrs to visit and wanted to shoot from 50-200yards to sight a new rifle in and ended up leaving for another 2hr ride home and 5 shots downrange because i honestly felt they were unsafe. The RO watched them and 3 other people "complained" of their mag dumps and the RO kicked them out without a refund and told them never come back.

 

[ATLDave]

A muzzle brake under a roof when open areas are available? At last, an etiquette issue. Yes, that's rude. Although it's not any less rude if it's someone with a braked .338 Lapua firing one round every 45 seconds than someone mag-dumping a .223 AR. As to the latter, at least you can learn to tune it out. The infrequent, widely-space BLAM is far more detrimental to most people's shooting, since there's no predictability to it.

As for the rest: No, shooting fast isn't a danger in and of itself.

Trust me, as someone who mostly learned to shoot in indoor ranges (complete with routine full-auto rentals going), you can learn to tune that stuff out in a hurry. But it will be harder if your'e just focused on how other people are doing it "wrong."

 

[Charliefrank]

There is a public range in the Ocala Nat'l Forest in Florida. 98% of the time I see no problems, it's pretty well self regulated. The other 2% make you pucker up pretty tight. Saw a man there with a $2500 clay target thrower, using an easily $1500 semi auto 12ga, turn around and flag every one with a loaded shotgun, twice. I've been up there plenty of times, I have had to leave a few times due to observing unsafe behavior, or just picking up a bad vibe from another shooter. No sense sticking around in those situations.

Thats the exact range in my post.

 

[bannockburn]

All I can say about going to a public range is that I believe very strongly in the buddy system as in I wouldn't go shooting there alone. We take turns changing targets while the other guy keeps an eye on the shooters on the firing line and looks after our guns and gear. Fortunately most other shooters we've seen there are well mannered and abide by the posted rules (no mag dumps, cold/hot range, and policing the area when you're done shooting).

 

[cougar1717]

Have public ranges always been like this, or am I just getting old?

Missouri has public ranges, a few staffed with RSO's but many more completely unstaffed with safety left to the attendees. There are great private clubs as well. Personally, I don't mind going to an unstaffed public range. They are patrolled by conservation agents. You do "get what you pay for." The vast majority of people are either new or infrequent shooters.

No need to list mag dumps or violation of sensible safety rules - these are going to happen in some way and you have to be both attentive and prepared to leave.

Etiquette issues:

1. Someone wants to go downrange for whatever reason. They ask, "Can I get a clear?" as in clear chambers for a cold range. Everyone does their stuff and gets back behind the line. The question is then asked, "Is everyone clear?" meaning, is everyone back and can we go back to a hot range. But most people don't know what they are saying, so they just yell, "clear?" for cold and "clear?" for hot. If I'm there, I just make sure to say, "the range is hot" or "the range is cold." Otherwise, it's so confusing. There are a few that yell "CLEAR" and start walking downrange. They have greater faith in their range neighbors than I do.

2. At least asking before you pick up someone else's brass. No problem if it it's from a previous shooter or obviously not a caliber that the current shooter is shooting. But I still remember a guy who was a know-it-all in fatigues, without common sense. He spent more time occupying a bench and talking rather than actually shooting. Under "clear," while everyone was downrange, he quickly scoured the range for everyone else's 308 brass, but wouldn't pick up his own! I picked up some of his brass from the FAL he was shooting. It was waaaaaay out of headspace, yielded and scary. I don't wish a ruptured case on anyone, but I just wish he was more considerate and less keyboard commando.

3. Shooting at targets that are not attached to the conservation dept's target board. I don't know about other places, but this is a big deal at the ranges I visit. I am never going to tattletale on someone, but if the conservation officer shows up and sees anyone with a home-made target stand or shooting something on the ground that was brought (i.e. a pumpkin, watermelon, computer monitor, one of those rubber balls/cubes, tannerite, or even clay pigeons on the berm) - it's a ticket. There are some people who genuinely don't know although it is clearly posted. If it is blatant, I will try to warn them in a nice way. A lot of times a group of guys shows up with a watermelon/pumpkin and 250 rounds. I don't really mind because they're gone within 30 minutes.

4. Monopolizing benches. The local public range isn't huge. If a few buddies show up and then take all of the benches at a certain distance, it might be occupied for an hour or two. Then they are just sitting there and talking to each other. That is something that is annoying, especially if people are waiting since all three of those guys could have shared one bench for the amount that they shot.

Finally, I do enjoy the people, families, and new shooters at public ranges. Many people let you see, handle, or even shoot their firearms. I've been going many years and only twice have I felt that I needed to pack up and go to the car or leave due to the attitudes or practices of others.

 

[paulo57509]

I live about 8 miles from a public range. I've always belonged to gun club ranges in the past. Due to it's close proximity and completely free of costs I find myself using it quite alot. Range etiquette is almost non existent. They have the typical safety rules posted as you walk into the covered shooting area. The last few times I've gone, I've waited patiently for everyone to be done shooting so I could ask "cold range?" Then go down range to mount some targets.A few seem to know what I'm referring too, but many do not. Once cold range is established I'm used to seeing firearms laid down, typically action open. I must admit I'm a little nervous seeing people still fiddling with their firearms as the rest of us go down range to check/change targets. I see lots of younger folks, early/mid twenties I guess with fully outfitted AR's, AK-47's and various other combat style weapons. They're shooting at 7 yard targets and 15 yard targets with scopes, red dot sights and other electronic sights Im not familiar with. And they're completely missing the target. They're just putting as much firepower down range as their trigger finger will allow. I do see some families shooting together and the usual guy's sighting in their rifles/muzzle loaders. It just seems like more people with little or no firearm experience or training are at the range.
Have public ranges always been like this, or am I just getting old?

Not to sound harsh or question your judgement, but I think it's borderline insane to continue to shoot at a range such as you describe.

I would never shoot at any range, public or private, free or pay, indoor or outdoor, without a range officer present or any range that didn't have enforced cease fire periods if I had to be down range to post/check targets.

I would also never shoot at any range that didn't perform and/or enforce during cease fire periods:

1) Unloaded and empty chamber checks.
2) No handling of firearms.
3) No milling around firing line/benches.

Even when shooting at ranges with strict safety rules, I always keep an eye on the firing line and my surroundings when I'm down range during cease fire periods. Especially when it gets crowded. I will sometimes pack up and leave when I see horseplay or even the slightest breech in safety protocols. This is why I try to plan my range trips around mid-week and early in the mornings.

Sorry to sound like an old woman, but I'd rather not be around when tragedy strikes.

I will say that on some rare occasions, I've been given the run of the range when I was the only shooter present. Only stipulation was I let the range officer know when I was planning on walking down range.

 

[entropy]

I have fired a fully automatic M16 the sheriff swat team brought out and even the guys who do this day in and day out couldn't hold on target.

They don't do it day in and day out, or else they don't do it RIGHT day in and day out; I'm sure there's a lot us on here that can hold and have held a 16 on target in full auto, unless that target is a 10m air rifle target....and some can probably do that.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Have public ranges always been like this, or am I just getting old?

Both. I've noticed that basic marksmanship has deteriorated quite a bit over the last few decades. It used to be that 25 yards was considered short range for a pistol...today, it's considered long range by the Duffer Brigade. On top of that, you've got a lot of people with no exposure to a formally run range...and little exposure to basic safety.

It bugs the hell out of me, too.

 

[Scooter22]

I think a big problem these days are new shooters that have never handled or shot a real gun. BUT they are experts with all types of guns on video games. They are a large percentage of the new gun buyers and want to use them at ranges like on the video games. Just standing at gun counters these days makes me cringe of many of the new buyers of "black" guns. They think they are going shoot them like in the video games.

 

[bersaguy]

Thats the exact range in my post.

I try to get there early in the morning when I go, usually seems to be ok then. But I dont try to go there on a Saturday afternoon. Too much commotion. 9 times out of 10 there is someone acting as an RO, volunteer of course, no real authority...usually the guy picking up the majority of the brass. Always too long between cold ranges though. But whoever has been there when I've been shooting has always done a good job of having all shooters step back from the firing line on a cold range. The shotgun area has always been a bit of a free for all.

 

[Steve S.]

It has always been my experience that people are people in any setting (shooting range, grocery store, public roads, doctor’s office, etc); about an equal distribution of the educated and the oblivious. Some settings lend themselves to more danger when the oblivious are present, shooting ranges being one of them.

 

[warnerwh]

Both private ranges I've belonged to do self policing. People are very good about doing everything by the rules of the club. In both clubs lines are painted in the shooting area that everybody has to stand behind keeping them away from the tables with guns on them til the range is hot again. All actions must be open before going down range. In my current range chamber flags aren't required but in the prior range they were. I have never felt unsafe with any of the members which by the way are mostly older people.
Whenever I read what some of you have posted about what has happened at a range you were at it gives me the creeps. I would leave and report anybody who didn't want to be safe and follow the rules. It only takes one mistake.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

There was a range up in the mountains west of Colorado Springs for about 50 years called Rampart Range. Most of the unsafe behavior I've seen described here went on there but I have to admit that in 50 years only one person was shot and that was a genuine malfunction with a muzzleloader. As soon as it happened whatever government agency was in charge of the range shut it down.

The biggest problem I saw up there was that people would go up there and shoot and leave their garbage behind. The shotgun hulls looked like snow drifts and there were dead refrigerators, stoves and washing machines all over the place. The place was a major eyesore.

My wife and I quit going there probably a couple years before it was closed. We now go to a private club out East of town. My work schedule is such that we get there on the weekdays we usually have a bay to ourselves and we act as our own range safety.

If I see people committing unsafe acts unless it was really blatant like they were pointing a gun at me I don't confront them I call the Clubhouse and report what I saw to the staff and let them come down and deal with it.

 

[old lady new shooter]

My range here is an indoor one and the staff are very sharp, but I still only go during the daytime during the week, not at night or on weekends.

 

[Mn Fats]

My range is very safe. Its just me and sometimes family on my farm Although one time I was shooting rifle at my bench with my ears on looking through my scope and when I opened my left eye there was a lady who stepped 5 ft in front of me at about my 11 o'clock. Scared the crap out of me. "Have you seen my dog?" she had trespassed through nearly 600 yards of my property to ask me that.

 

[Jack B.]

One thing I've noticed at almost every range I've been to is that most people don't think about the mess they make. Most of the time the RO has to remind people to clean up their brass unless they are a reloader.

 

[alsaqr]

Have public ranges always been like this, or am I just getting old?

No, they have not always been like that. Many folks have never ever has any training in firearms safety or marksmanship. They sit down at a bench and proceed to blow away hundreds of rounds at close range targets totally oblivious of other shooters.

Outside of Basic training, it was very common to adjust the sights on your weapon after checking your target, even if others were still down range doing the same to their targets. Unloaded weapon, actions open, fingers nowhere near triggers, I never felt scared of an accidental discharge from the lanes next to me while marking targets.

i spent a career in the US Army, retiring in 1979. Troops in that Army did not point rifles downrange while other shooters were checking their targets.

Several years ago I was present on a private weapons range at a military post when a troop in uniform pointed his rifle down range while others were down range. A middle aged gent in civilian clothes reprimanded the soldier, who got snarly. The gent pulled out his id card, notified the soldier that he was an active duty full colonel and ordered the man to attention.

 

[Glockula]

The two real etiquette issues I have seen is:

A. Leaving trash at a public range which is clearly bad if not illegal

B. Rapid fire on a crowded range. I am torn on this issue. There are times I want to practice my double taps and use a little rapid fire. Is a full public range with inexperienced shooters and shaky range safety practices the place to do that? Maybe not.

 

[Jack B.]

Maybe it's the part of the county I live in. When a range is declared cold or a cease fire has been declared ,no weapon ,no matter where it is may be handled and every one on that range must stand back and can not approach the firing line weather an RO is there or not. It's the rule at every range I've been to.

 

[buck460XVR]

I live about 8 miles from a public range. I've always belonged to gun club ranges in the past. Due to it's close proximity and completely free of costs I find myself using it quite alot. Range etiquette is almost non existent.

One only needs to read the bold sentence in the above quote to pretty much understand why there is no supervision or following/understanding the rules. It's free....open to anyone, no prerequisite training or signing an paper agreeing to follow the rules required. Many may even be there because there is no supervision or enforcement of the rules. Sometimes....... one gets what they pay for.

I belong to a small Sportman's club which has had a 100 yard range and trap shooting before I was old enough to shoot(I'm 63 now). While you were always required to be a member or at least pay the $10 for a range pass, since it is unsupervised the majority of the time, a good portion of those that shoot there, have/are neither. Many is the time I've asked about their member card or range pass and they just shrug and say "We never needed one before!", even tho there is a large weathered sign stating they do by the entrance gate. These are the folks that leave their broken bottles and other junk they've used for targets behind, along with their Burger King bags full of garbage and half eaten food on the shooting tables. They too don't always shoot at the berm, nor do they put their weapons down when one asks for a "cold" range. This is why I do the majority of my shooting at my personal range, or go there only during the week. I also avoid the month or so before gun deer season. We as members have tried to come up with alternatives, but most everything we come up with is cost prohibitive. When members are there, we are to ask for member cards of range passes from folks we don't know. Many times, there's the perennial "I left it at home". If asked to leave, they get confrontational and one has a feeling they will be back when you leave to shoot and probably vandalize. This is not just young kids with ARs, this is old coots with their 30-30s that have been shooting at the range for years.....for free, and have got to the point the feel entitled to continue. Free is a wonderful thing, but it does come as a cost.

 

[ATLDave]

B. Rapid fire on a crowded range. I am torn on this issue. There are times I want to practice my double taps and use a little rapid fire. Is a full public range with inexperienced shooters and shaky range safety practices the place to do that? Maybe not.

Why would the range's "shaky range safety practices" have any influence over whether you fired more than one round a second (or whatever people consider "rapid fire")? If the range were actually unsafe, firing faster won't make it any safer for you (except maybe you'll run out of ammo and leave sooner!). Are you unsafe when you fire rapidly? If so, you should work on that.* Safety practices of a range can't fix that for you.

*I strongly suspect you are not an unsafe shooter; I am just exploring the possible logic of your earlier statement.

 

[Glockula]

I would want to be very careful with each round fired if I think there is a possibility of someone going down range when the range is still hot. While in rapid fire your sense of hearing and sight(aiming on the target) are not very good.

This compounded on a crowded range where people may not be following good safety rules. I would rather have better awareness and slow down.

Another water etiquette comes unto play here is m rapid or fully automatic fire right next to little kids clearly learning to shoot. Is it unsafe, no, but it sure is off-putting to the kids. Again the title of the thread says it is about etiquette not range safety practices so that is what I am commenting on. On a free public range no less. I can' see how my previous comment is not in line with that.

 

[Charliefrank]

One only needs to read the bold sentence in the above quote to pretty much understand why there is no supervision or following/understanding the rules. It's free....open to anyone, no prerequisite training or signing an paper agreeing to follow the rules required. Many may even be there because there is no supervision or enforcement of the rules. Sometimes....... one gets what they pay for.

I belong to a small Sportman's club which has had a 100 yard range and trap shooting before I was old enough to shoot(I'm 63 now). While you were always required to be a member or at least pay the $10 for a range pass, since it is unsupervised the majority of the time, a good portion of those that shoot there, have/are neither. Many is the time I've asked about their member card or range pass and they just shrug and say "We never needed one before!", even tho there is a large weathered sign stating they do by the entrance gate. These are the folks that leave their broken bottles and other junk they've used for targets behind, along with their Burger King bags full of garbage and half eaten food on the shooting tables. They too don't always shoot at the berm, nor do they put their weapons down when one asks for a "cold" range. This is why I do the majority of my shooting at my personal range, or go there only during the week. I also avoid the month or so before gun deer season. We as members have tried to come up with alternatives, but most everything we come up with is cost prohibitive. When members are there, we are to ask for member cards of range passes from folks we don't know. Many times, there's the perennial "I left it at home". If asked to leave, they get confrontational and one has a feeling they will be back when you leave to shoot and probably vandalize. This is not just young kids with ARs, this is old coots with their 30-30s that have been shooting at the range for years.....for free, and have got to the point the feel entitled to continue. Free is a wonderful thing, but it does come as a cost.

The gun club range I used to belong to before I moved, issued cards also. You also get a key to the locked cable across the entrance to the parking lot. Thats how they solved unwanted guests.