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Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by sm, Jan 23, 2008.

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  1. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    Internet is a medium providing effective communications to persons all over the world.
    Therefore we are a global society, and one can learn and share with persons all over the world.

    Not everyone has the same Rights and Freedoms afforded as others in the world, and even within same countries, there are additional restrictions and regulations.

    Information Technology has grown exponentially as have other technologies and advances.
    This does not mean one should forget older technologies, skill sets, ideologies and methods.

    Before IT became a part of most households, peoples survived, communicated , and lived life on life's terms.
    Society investigated and verified, as one was raised to do so.

    Today we see more peoples believing in propaganda, brainwashing and hype.
    Marketing has done a wonderful job of eroding the self sufficiency of Society and self responsibility.

    Freedoms are being eroded and Tyranny is allowed to use what eroded to erode even more.

    Anything can be used for good or evil, just a fact of life, and the way life works.
    Nuclear can be for medicine, or missiles, nuclear in itself is not good or evil, instead the intent of the user of nuclear defines intent.

    Pull up a chair...I got some 'plaining to do it seems.
  2. Thernlund

    Thernlund Member

    Apr 12, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    I don't agree. IT has made people more cynical and wary of what the hear I think. People used to believe the fantastic tales of Ulysses and the gods. Frontier folk gazed in wide wonder over dime store novels telling of the exploits of Wyatt Earp and Doc Holiday. None ever questioned whether it was true. It was in print or told by someone who was trusted. It must have been.

    Today, people see something on CNN and just roll their eyes. I think that was even the case on 9/11 to a degree before the second plane crashed.


    EDIT: I think I may have interupted your trip. My bad.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2008
  3. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    You are dying

    If anything takes life, some day it will cease life as we define it.
    Right after you drew your first breath, you started the journey of taking your last one.

    Accept this, and one can get on with this journey called Life ,and free up a lot of energy and brain power to deal with Life's journey.

    Young-Un, you may get injured, maimed, even dead, dammit to hell do so on your terms and not the other SOB's terms.

    I am a US citizen, born in the Southern USA, to clarify for those not in the USA, my position:

    -Freedom as outlined by COTUS and BoR.
    -Serious Situations, and I am responsible for me.
    - Skills sets and Tools, are my responsibility.

    There is a "Report to Mod" button, and one has an option to use the "Ignore feature with my user name.

    Pull up a chair...
    NIGHTLORD40K likes this.
  4. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears

    Find what fits you, one you can reach the trigger and all controls.
    Nobody can choose a gun for you, your hands, fingers, and dexterity.

    My suggestion is to get with someone seasoned, that is not family, and see all the different types, see and listen to how these operate, and function.

    Best for a lady to get with other ladies, as ladies communicate better than men, and have some special considerations men do not.

    Actually handle and see if you can reach controls, triggers and the like.

    Shoot a variety, and then once narrowed down, do a test Hackathorn came up with.

    5 rds.
    5yds set out a 1/4 sheet of typing paper.

    From concealed is best, low ready is fine.
    At the go, acquire and fire 5 rounds as quickly and effectively as can.
    The paper does not lie.

    Whatever gun you shoot best, in whatever caliber, standard or +p ammunition, will be revealed.

    This test is advised all along one's Life's journey.
    Injury, surgery, arthistis kicks in, and if the .357 loads hurt, and the .38spls don't, and you get quick effective hits on this drill, load the gun with .38spls.

    .40cal hurts, hard to rack slide with RA, and snappy recoil, Tip up Berettas in .380, or 32ACP may allow you to get 5 rounds on target at 5 yds the best.
    Hits count, carry the .380 or .32ACP.

    Naysayers are not going to be at your serious situation.
  5. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    Shotgun Shells

    These are fired from shotguns of course, and no projectile is known what it will do at any distance, until it is fired from said gun and said distances.

    It does not matter what kind of shotgun, what gauge, what platform, how many rounds it holds, what kind of shell offering...
    The gun has to be patterned/shot for slug groups to know.


    There is no such thing as guaranteed loading in any shotgun.
    So forget all about buying any shotgun shell with the idea that a particular loading is a guaranteed stopper.

    Applies to any loading for any firearm.

    Bottom line is, when it is your time to die, you die.
    It does not matter what gun, what loading, and how many you have, if it is your turn to get shot, injured, maimed or dead, you do so.

    Same applies to evil using firearms, including shotguns against you and yours.

    In the main OR, I have seen and heard the persons just a cussing and mad as all get out, shot with shotguns.
    12 ga slug, 00 buck, #1 , #3, #4 buck, all lived, some come in conscious to ER, then straight to OR, (slug and 00 did) just loud, cussing and pissed!
    Some come in in shock, weak, in and out of it, still they lived too.

    .357 load, from a .357 revolver stuck in a mouth and trigger tripped and he is still alive.

    .22 short killed that lady, so did a .22 lr, 25ACP from small handguns on others.

    .410 shell with a load of #6 , killed...

    The faster one forgets and ignores all the bull chips, actually accepts they are dying, they are responsible for themselves, and gets out there to try guns, get one that fits them, gets lessons, and continues quality practice, the better off they will be.

    Marketing does not give one iota about you, they just want your money.
    Your choice to give them money in blind faith to be safe or investigate and verify for yourself.

    I am not going to be at your gunfight - Awerbuck

    None of you folks were around when I had serious matters, guns pulled and fired at me either.

    Lady Luck. Always welcome this Lady to accompany you always.
  6. cambeul41

    cambeul41 Member

    Oct 31, 2005
    Southeast Michigan
    It will be interesting to see where this is going. Aren't we all in the choir? What was the primer that set off the powder charge?
  7. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

    Nov 20, 2006
    Yep. Something lit his fuse. it will be interesting, that is for sure.
  8. Superlite27

    Superlite27 Member

    Nov 29, 2007
    Oh, I will always welcome Lady Luck to come along if she wishes, I just don't think she's as punctual, trustworthy, and loyal as Mr. Skill.

    I realize that people entrusting their lives to the entire Skill clan, the Training brothers, the Awareness twins, the Equipment family, and the Overlord of Professional Tactics himself have often fallen stone cold dead to a half hearted attempt by a half-baked mentally deficient moron with a single glance from Ms. Luck.

    But I choose to entrust just a little faith in Mr. Percentage as well.

    If I use reliable ammunition.
    If I inspect each round for deficiencies.
    If I inspect my firearm regularly.
    If I ensure that it functions correctly.
    If I carry one in the chamber.
    If I am comfortable with my carry configuration.
    If I practice drawing from that configuration.
    If I mentally prepare myself for possibilities.
    If I maintain my situational awareness.
    If I practice shooting my firearm regularly.

    ....and 100 other steps to proficiency. I rely on the law of averages. Each individual thing I do to increase my proficiency adds a certain percentage to my CONCRETE ODDS OF SURVIVAL. It might just be a thousandth of a percentage point, but it's a thousandth of a percentage point IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

    I realize full well that Lady Luck might walk out the door and a bullet may randomly crash through the window at any moment and strike me down. At least I know that if a situation rolls around where Mr. Skill might come in handy, I haven't left him high and dry while trying to woo the attentions of that fickle woman Luck.
    NIGHTLORD40K likes this.
  9. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

    Oct 11, 2003

    Steve isn't talking about cynicism. There's no real difference between believing everything and believing nothing, because indiscriminate incredulity is merely the extreme opposite of indiscriminate credulity. Neither is an efficient nor even a useful way to deal with the world.

    He is talking about a skill set lacking in many people today. They don't even recognize its existence. And they laugh when someone is kind enough to say that those skills do exist, that they are essential, and that although they are extremely difficult to acquire when one is a young adult it is well worth trying to develop as much of them as possible even then. People from previous generations began to learn those skills early.

    The problem Steve confronts seems to be similar to that in trying to explain color to someone born without sight. I don't think it can be done. He obviously thinks it's worth trying. More power to him.
  10. ArfinGreebly

    ArfinGreebly Moderator Emeritus

    Oct 10, 2006
    North Idaho
    My fault?

    Hey, Steve, can this thread be my fault?

    It's my turn, after all.

    And I ain't been blamed for anything lately.

    So, I got dibs on this thread.

    I get to take [strike]credit[/strike] - er - the blame for this one!

  11. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    It is not about you - instead them.

    Investigate & Verify.

    Marketing applies to people, places and things.

    Guru's and Groupies

    This is not a new marketing concept, it has been around forever.
    Some folks need to be a groupie to someone or concept, and someone needs to be Guru with concepts and groupies.

    This circle jerk of stroking egos will get you injured, maimed and /or dead.

    You are dying anyway, your choice if you let a equipment , concepts, or someone else attribute to your checking out.

    What do we do???

    Investigate & Verify is what you do.

    Before Internet we paid attention, asked questions. Folks actually spoke to one another, face to face, including ladies and gents!
    Phone calls made, letter written, telegrams sent...

    Internet has email to contact others, or use private messaging to get more input after reading a web site about a trainer or facility.
    Perhaps in doing a Internet Search, one come upon a website, blog, or review by someone.

    I am still learning about computers and Internet and firearm matters.

    Great, I respect the fact you are up front and honest and exhibit willingness to learn.

    Does the Guru demand one to use certain equipment, guns, ammo, and markets high round count?

    Does the Guru have a whole lot of topics and skill sets to be discussed in a limited time frame that is going to be difficult to accomplish in said time frame?

    Some of these folks take advantage of "cult" and high round counts downrange does not mean quality training.
    They get their money, the ego boost of so many groupies coming thru, and the groupies get a diploma and discount coupon for the next class "they gotta have" in the next level.

    Some have only been shooting a very short time, some even "branch out" from the Guru due to demographics, and open a facility, a blob, website, and they have no real world experience, just great writing skills, computer and web page design.

    If it sounds too good - it is.

    Contrast with the Trainer that has been there, done that, he/she has students, attracted to this trainer , often times taking the same courses over.
    Attraction, not Promotion is a key in determining quality lessons in anything.
    Be it whom to take a basic NRA safety class from, CCW instruction, learning to shoot, advance lessons in shooting.

    Folks recommend , voluntarily recommend folks to take classes under.
    Couples, families, and others recommend to each other.
    Often times they take classes together, or, take turns with same instructor.
    Depends on what one is to get out of a class.

    There is a place to not take a class with family, better for the student, and time where couple need to take a class on advances levels in working as a team at home, office, business, or any setting they may encounter out in Life's Journey.

    What are you wanting to learn?
    What level of skill sets do you currently have?

    Guru will demand you use a certain gun, holster and shooting methodology putting hi round counts downrange.

    You may need /wanted to get the legal aspects learned, learn to conceal a firearm best, draw, re holster, retain.
    Round count?
    "Bring 50 rounds for whatever gun you have, spare speed loader/ magazine , holster if you have one, if not we have some we can work with - we may not shoot all those 50 rounds, the main lessons are non-live fire this course" - trainer.

    Don't walk - run to this trainer!
    I assure you after you attend, you will be recommending wife, husband, teenage kids, and any one else you care about to attend.

    Gurus - are about themselves and your money.

    Trainers care about you!
    They have to pay the light bill, they have to pay stay in business and all.
    Still they care about you!

    Pull up a chair...
  12. catfish101

    catfish101 Member

    Jan 7, 2008
    I follow you but I am not sure where we are going. Have you been drinking??:D

    The world, to and extent, seems to be going to he$$ but my grandmother said the same thing when people starting drive cars..
  13. mpmarty

    mpmarty Member

    Jul 12, 2006
    So. Western Oregon
    Common sense, practice, review your practice, think about another way to practice, practice alone where you won't be embarrassed if you make a wrong turn somewhere along the line. Stay the heck away from those "tactical schools" and learn to think on your own, by yourself, in your own environment. The only real training I have had was over fifty years ago at MCRD West. It was great training but taught nothing about CCW, self defense in civilian life etc. I've met folks who "graduated" from not just one but several of these so called schools. I wouldn't let them cover my back in a poker game.:fire:
  14. rero360

    rero360 Member

    Nov 15, 2005
    Fredonia, NY
    please continue teacher, I am your student here to listen and to learn.
  15. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    Reality is Real

    It is said the only thing left of one when they die is that which don't burn.

    All the material possessions will burn. We turn into ashes and worm food at the end of this journey called Life.

    Some while going through this journey called Life, have lost everything due to fire flood, tornado and other disasters. While a traumatic experience, everyone I have spoken to, have shared the same things, about material things, and what is important.
    I have lost much to disaster as well, I can relate.

    Mental is so much a key to life, knowing how to go about doing something follows, and having tools to do a task comes next.

    Mirrors: Mindset, tactic and equipment in that order, in order to survive.
    Mirrors: Shooting is 90% Mental and 10% Physical [Misseldine].

    Good shooters are made- not born - Misseldine

    Cops used to shoot revolvers out to 50 yards to qualify. Not feet, yards.

    Competitive shooter, with nice guns, competition guns, CCW guns, every damn one gone. Disaster struck.
    Disaster, even took the ones off site, as this site was hit too.

    All we had handy en route were some Model 10s, single shot shotguns, some .22 rifles and one JC Higgins 20 bore pump gun.

    Appreciative as he could be, he got the JC Higgins, a Model 10 and his wife took a Model 10 and single shot, and his kid a Marlin 60.

    We passed the rest of what we had to others, and no looters and no evil was done.
    I've seen him run these guns to shoot 200/200 in skeet, shoot some stages, run the shotgun in a 3 gun type event...

    His wife is the rifle shooter, she shoots the butts off gnats like some toss a paper towel in a waste can. Effortless.

    Scoot that chair closer....
    Two points I want you to write down and underline in red.

    1. Mindset, tactics and equipment is the key to survival in that order.
    2. Pass down these skills to others.

    When you die, all your guns and equipment are burned up by fire, all your trophies, certificates, awards are gone too.

    If you pass these and other concepts down, they will remain after you are dead.

    That person passes these concepts down, and again, these concepts remain after they are dead.

  16. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    Safety is between the ears.

    Safety is between the ears.
    It is not on the safety of a firearm.
    It is not because the knife has a locking mechanism, or even a fixed blade.

    Never learn on a crutch, for if you lose that crutch, you will fall down. - Mentors

    I was raised with 3 Rules of Gun Safety.
    Rule 3 was split sometime later on and part of it became what is Rule 4 today.

    Remember that sharing I did earlier about gun fit, trying before you buy, reaching controls and the like?

    Look the damn gun is not able to do a damn thing without a user, and the user has to able to reach all controls and manipulate the gun.

    a. The gun being safely used is up to you. It does not matter if it is a revolver, semi-auto, if this semi-auto is Single Action, Double /Single action, Double action only, has a safety, ambi safety or 14 safeties - damn gun is only going to be as safe as the user of the damn thing.

    b. Pick out what fits you, learn it to where it becomes an extension of you.
    Forget a gun "having to have" anything to be safe and what this crap is.
    I don't care what Brady, Anti's, any Pro-Gun folks on Internet, Forums, Blogs or Personal Websites say.

    Safety is between the ears.

    WE took the safeties out on purpose on shotguns, and stayed safe, and I do mean hi-round counts on these guns.


    Tip: Put your finger on front of sharp side, you will get cut.

    I don't give a damn if this is fixed blade, locking knife of any and all locking mechanism design, or traditional slip-joint.
    I don't care if this if this is a custom made knife of unobtanium steel, exotic handles, cost umpteen bazillion dollars, only 1-of-50 built by a person that got their picture and knife on the cover of The Rolling Stone...fixed or...

    has a lock a 16 pound sledge hammer could not get to fail, is able to open in nth of a nanosecond, is tip up, tip down, tip whomper-jawed, and has a lanyard hole or not...

    Stick your finger in front of the sharp edge and you will get cut.

    WE had fixed and slip-joints growing up. Locks...goofy suckers we thought and we asked "why".

    So it does not close and cut you

    Well dumb butt if'n you were raised right, and learned how to use a slip-joint in the first place like you were supposed to - you would not be cutting yourself!

    But, but, but...

    Listen, we know how to use a slip joint, and fixed blade, now if you were to suggest this lock idea is in addition to, safety between the ears, using correct basic fundamentals, we might pay attention.

    Never ever piss on my shoe and tell me it is raining and never tell me a safety /lock is not going to cut me/us.

    I guess I should mention this fellow has a bandage for one nasty cut and looked like the poster child for some Band-Aid company.

    I was demonstrating how safe these were...

    Salesmanship was not this fellas strong suite...not at all.

    Guns & Knives.

    What the hell is wrong with people today?
    They wear out guns from cleaning and lubing and bolting crap on and off - not from shooting.

    Folks can't sharpen a knife freehand anymore.
    Granted some knives are made to get money from the get-go, with promises the knife with crap for steel not made to use or cut anything will increase in value, only to find out knives like anything else is a buyers market - not collectors market.

    That said, folks get a knife and *gasp* actually cut something with it.
    I guess the clip onto pocket or whipping it out fast got boring so they thought they would actually cut something.

    For some cutting a pc of string with a knife was like sex for the first time, they wanted to, afraid to, not sure how to go about it, and once done had to run take a shower...

    *Cut* "Oh My! I cut string, now I need to sharpen my knife! "

    Oh Good Grief Charlie Brown! You don't need to sharpen it!

    You damn sure don't need a gee whiz sharpener either. What are you going to do if disaster hit and you really have to sharpen one?

    Power is out and no where to plug up a silly butt electric one, not to mention batteries are better used for other things, and toting all this crap for a hike, canoe trip, hunting, ain't gonna work.

    Freehand vs Doodads - Freehand will always win, it always has.

    Get a simple stone and learn to use it.
    You gonna let a "girl" beat you, with her Old Hickory kitchen knife and using the bottom of a cereal bowl she uses to touch up a blade?

    Probably so...same reason gals just shoot the damn guns and don't care about gigdets, gadgets, what gun oil ...
    Gals I run with don't get wrapped around the axles about it being pretty or if no holsters made for gals.

    The just go into the shoe shop and "hey can we do this so it fits me better- thanks!"

    They don't stick fingers in front of sharp edges on knives, and they don't rely on anything for safety - except what is between the ears.

    Its all in the genes they say, gals don't have the dumb macho gene- thank goodness!
  17. igpoobah

    igpoobah Member

    Jun 20, 2007
    Preach on, brutha Steve! I'm listening.
  18. Cmdr. Gravez0r

    Cmdr. Gravez0r Member

    Aug 26, 2007
    I want this...no, I DEMAND this be made a sticky when he's said his piece.
  19. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    Move to the USA

    Folks in the UK and other countries such as New Zealand are members of THR.

    These persons are members of other gun /knife/rights forums and we have those that find responsible firearm owners/ knife owners via Internet searchs, and lurk.
    Add persons send links to others about web sites period.

    UK and NZ along with other countries are restricted in regard to firearms and knives - for starters.

    We in the USA, and other countries that do not have these restrictions would be wise to pay attention as to how this come about, learn from our like kind restricted and use what learned to fight and preserve our freedoms.

    WE, being a Global Society, are all, in this Freedom vs Tyranny battle.
    UK , NZ, and other countries have in the past and are currently fighting side by side Americans to Preserve Freedom.

    WE are ambassadors of Freedom.
    WE are ambassadors to up and coming generations in regard to Freedoms.

    People are located in other countries for many reasons besides just being born there.
    Some are in the Military, others are working for Corporations that support Military and other industries that the work is for Freedom.
    Medical Research, Technologies and other reasons.

    People have business, property families, investments, retirements planned.
    Perhaps they do have plans to move to the USA, and many have and will continue to, just in the meantime some are where they are for a good reason.

    They cannot have guns, they are restricted to non-locking knives with 3 inch limits.

    Instead of being an ambassador of negative, snarky comments, which is your right of course...

    What about getting to know these persons abroad, sharing experience , strength and hope?

    If they come to visit the USA, invite them out to shoot, or attend a knife show, a forging, - heck just good old fashioned hospitality if nothing else over a meal.

    Would it hurt to be civil, polite, and communicate on the solutions instead of being an ambassador of negative and contributing to the problem?

    Got kids?
    Internet is great for kids learning from another kid in another country.
    Remember, if your kid chooses to send a knife to another, it has to fit legal restrictions, still pretty neat for a kid to get a knife from another kid from abroad.

    Just what kind of an ambassador are you?

    Pull up a chair...
  20. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears

    Hold onto your chair.

    Everyone Stereotypes and Profiles others and in like turn they area Stereotyped and Profiled.

    Called Life, deal with it!

    No I don't ...

    Yeah you do.
    Your brain said "nurse" seeing a male or female in hospital scrubs, scrub jacket, tennis shoes ,lanyard around neck and steth in the pocket.

    Girls watched the Coke commercial where the construction worker removed his T shirt and thought "Stud-Puppy" or other things Art's Grammaw would blush over.

    Pay attention...

    In every profession there are bad representatives.

    It is not the profession itself, instead the person in the profession.
    Just like it is not guns/knives/matches or anything else that is bad, instead the intent of the user of something.


    Male, Long hair in a ponytail, beard, tattoo showing, riding a Harley Motorcycle.

    Biker. Bikers are all bad

    *sigh* No!

    1.That fellow is actually a Ortho Surgeon and I assure you, you want him to be your surgeon if you ever get down or a member of family does.

    2. RNII STIII ( Registered Nurse, Scrub Tech) This fellow is the one for you want in the OR ( operating room) as either your room charge nurse or scrub tech assisting the Surgeon listed above.

    3. CRNA ( Certified Registered Nurse Anesthesia)
    This fellow is the one that will be putting you under, and keeping tabs on all your vitals while surgery is going on.

    4. PhD of Math, Physics, Chemistry or any other discipline.

    5. Undercover LEO , he is keeping tabs for security around the hospital campus, the college campus, across the street from where your kids go to school.

    6. Undercover Private In House Security.
    Oh he is having a cold one, enjoying his cheeseburger, shooting a game of pool, but he is watching the suits in the corner, and is the one that kept your 401s intact, or gathered information about employees selling your credit card number to others, or ...is letting his buddies come in during graveyard shift and stealing out of the warehouse to sell on the streets...


    Well this would be like stereotyping all men as rapists as they have a penis and all ladies whores as they have a vagina.
  21. Nugilum

    Nugilum Member

    Dec 17, 2007
    Texas Panhandle
    I wait patiently for more wisdom Sensei...
  22. Scorpiusdeus

    Scorpiusdeus member

    Jun 29, 2006
    Ventura County, California
    Has Jeff Cooper risen from the dead or do I just need to drop some acid to fully appreciate this thread?
  23. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    Getting un-whomper-jawed

    If your were raised right, you were parented and mentored with tools that fit you so to better learn skill sets.

    The human body is not fully developed until about age 16 for girls and age 18 for boys.

    All the systems of the human anatomy and physiology.
    This why a baby is not to be given honey, why the sacral (tail bone) is not fused with other vertebrae until about age 5. The part of the brain dealing with judgment is not developed until about 16 for girls or age 18 for boys.

    This optimum continues until about age 34 to age 36, depending on gender with girls typically lasting longer.

    After age 34/36, one's systems start a decline until they die.

    Going from memory, not worried about exact, just the general idea here if you will.

    Remember, adults had tools that fit you as a kid, and as you got bigger so you could learn skill sets.

    Like a kid's sized .22 bolt action rifle, BB Gun, a simple .22 handgun, revolver or semi-auto.
    Simple. No optics, just iron sights to learn correct basic fundamentals.

    Guns were not too heavy, like handguns such as Ruger Standard , Ruger Standard MKI and MKII.
    J and K frame sized revolvers with 2, 3, 4" barrels.

    New shooters, especially kids, do not have the hand or grip strength, stamina built up.
    If a gun is simple, light, easy to use on is not going to get fatigued, get tired, and lose interest as it is not fun anymore.

    Fun is a key. Knock off tin cans and take a break, do it again.

    Kids and new shooters want to have fun, see the tin cans getting knocked off, balloons burst, and other reactive targets.

    Heavy Bulls-Eye .22 gun, while neat for them to see, hold, even shoot, is not the gun for them to "only have" to learn on.

    Tricked out 10/22 again is neat, but it is too long, and they cannot properly shoulder gun and use it.

    Get some simple guns, new, used, pawn shop buys, I do not care what.

    I don't care if you are not married, don't have nieces or nephews, just have a simple kids .22 bolt rifle and .22 ammunition.
    Snag that trade in S&W 422/622 semi-auto pistol in 4" barrel - steel and alloy, light, easy to shoot and affords a lot of quality practice for a new shooter.

    These might be a neighbor's kids, co-workers, a girlfriends younger sibs, nieces or nephews.

    You might get down with detached retina, neck, shoulder , back surgery, and Doctor Orders- NO Recoil.
    That Ruger Standard, S&W 422/622, Buckmaster, Hi-Standard Duramatic, - you bought to assist new shooters, may be the only gun you can safely use for yourself.

    Still deteriorating , as one ages and Osteo kicks in, Doctor says driving is too great a risk, as even shutting the trunk, a door, might break your back.
    You step down out of bed as you always have and break a foot.

    You don't drive, as the risk is too great. Doctor and Physical Therapist agree and you now are allowed that .22 pistol, or Marlin 60, or similar for home use, and pistol when riding with someone going out.

    It hurts, all them years of Trapshooting, 3 gun, IDPA, ISPC, still you bought them kid's sized guns, you passed forward, thought of others instead of the latest, greatest something for you.

    When you die, you were that guy/lady that had a gun :

    "just my size and I knocked tin cans off that fence and we ate corndogs and we had so much fun and ...and..."

    Pull up a chair...
  24. Valkman

    Valkman Member

    Jul 31, 2003
    Las Vegas, NV
    Uh-oh! :D
    NIGHTLORD40K likes this.
  25. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    Avenue of Broken Dreams

    Reality is everything we need in regard to firearms and ammunitions was done so by 1955 with the introduction of the .44 magnum.

    1935 if one deletes the .44 magnum as a tool for them.

    Knife patterns and designs also fit into this category.
    Just what the hell is there to improve on in a Bowie, Green River, Chef's ,Butcher, Paring knife anyway?
    There ain't.
    Ditto for slip joints and patterns and blade designs and more than one bladed Slipjoints.

    Like the movies, folks can't come up with better plots, so they remake the movies.
    Then again they need the new-fangled computer generated version and the actors and actress cannot act like the original actors and actresses did when originally done in black and white.

    Note: Not a threat, instead a promise. If some idiot does a remake of Casablanca in computer gee-whiz color and grapics and has some idiots breathng my air trying to be Bogart and Bergman...

    The phrase 'movie star' is misused so much that it has no real meaning any more. Any little pinhead who makes one picture is called a star.... To be a star you have to drag your weight in the box office and be recognized wherever you go." - Bogart

    Great, just great.
    So now you have a gun just like some Dept uses, or Agency.

    Oh not that some testing and evaluations are not done, not that the gun is not a good gun or anything, just the reality is...

    Lowest Bidder, Hard Sell Marketing, Unscrupulous Dealings, Politics and other reasons are the real reason that Dept or Agency has that gun.

    Brand A comes in, puts cash on the table to buy all the old guns "right" sell new guns "right" offer to put the Armorer through Armorer school free, with free tools and all sorts of perks.

    Brands B, C, D...got screwed, maybe in a literal sense if part of the wheeling and dealing involved hookers and free drinks, by Brand A.

    Business is Business...

    That is "them" that ain't J.Q Public that paid a helluva a lot more for same gun.

    Does that gun fit you?
    How did it do with the Hackathorn test?

    What the hell was wrong with the gun you had or did you catch a case of brain farts and this worsened into I wanna cool gun virus.?

    Hey, them nine pellet 00 buck don't pattern too well from your shotgun at 7 yards.

    Oops! Sorry! I did not not realize you were shooting that new gun like Dept/Agency has with a 17 round mag.

    <17-9 = ,where in the hell did the other 8 rounds go then?>

    Mosey on down to sound of a young lady:
    " Nuh! Grandpa/Grandma, can I shoot my new gun now?

    Uncle 'teve, its my turn with my new gun, get 'em to give my gun back...*giggle-wink*

    "Hang on kiddo, Grandpa and Grandma are going to shoot to see who buys you Taco Bell with their CCWs"

    "We are?" grandparents

    "See kid, they agree with me."
    "If they are buying I want steak at that other place then"
    "Works for me, say you need a date I am available..."

    "It looks one hole, and I can't tell who beat..."
    "Me neither kid, I think they should split the tab"
    "Yeah, works for me and they can both buy me more ammo too."

    If you are LEO or Military, or similar, such as Armored Car, or Corrections you will be issued what needed and have to abide by regs.
    You will use the ammunition issued, and you will maintain weapons as per Policy and Protocol.

    The rest of you folks may collect for history , personal satisfaction and whatever else.
    This bull chip about pretending to be something you are not, living a fantasy, by having guns and ammo based on Dept or Agency issue is not always wise.

    CCW, it needs to fit you.

    20/20 hindsight is so clear, and while many never leave the lessons of how raised, many use the clarity to return to what works for them.
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