Pump action carbines and rifles, where are they at?

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whm1974

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What is it the lack of slide action rifles and smaller carbines in handgun calibers? It really that .22lr pumps were almost fairly common back in the late 80's if you wanted one. But such rifles using stuff like .357 Mag were aviable as well.

Now the companies that still make them want nearly four figures for them...

Now Semi Auto .22 rifles are everywhere...
 
I wouldn't say they were common in the 80's. Maybe more common than today, but pump actions and rifles just don't go together like they do with shotguns for a variety of reasons. Semi-auto 22's have been far more common since at least the 1960's. I'd guess pump rifles aren't being made today because they were hard to sell in the 80's.

Shotguns are pointed, not aimed like rifles. A pump rifle isn't really any faster to get back on target than a bolt or lever action rifle. They are heavier, less reliable in center fire rifles, and compared to 22's are more expensive to produce than a semi-auto. When you get into gas operated semi's then a pump is cheaper to make. And unlike lever actions there is no historical attraction to pump rifles. Shotguns yes.

And while they can be quite handy to fire offhand they are harder to use, and the slowest of all actions if used in any type of supported position. The emphasis today is more on precision than getting off a lot of shots quickly.
 
There are pump "AR" types for state ban reasons -https://worldoftroy.com/product-category/sporting-rifles/

However, you can get compliant 9mm rifles like the Rugers, so why have a pump 9mm? There's no real advantage unless you are trying to avoid a ban like the 223s.

If all semis are banned, you might see some new pistol pump long arms until they are banned.
 
The few folks out there who were lucky enough to snag the IMI Timberwolf when they were being imported are loath to depart with them. The 357 and 44 versions can get close to $2000 these days.

I agree with everything @jmr40 said in the post above but I still like pump rifles. I would love one in 44 and 450 Bushmaster.

I grew up hunting with pump action slug throwers and I am used to the action type and don’t care to deviate going from shotgun to rifle. I do spend a lot of time with lever actions too though and don’t care for bolt guns. It’s a lefty thing I guess
 
If all semis are banned, you might see some new pistol pump long arms until they are banned.

Very true -- the Aussie practical shooters buy quite a few of them, especially the Remington 7615 in .223 -- go to about the 21 minute mark in this video for some down under user commentary:



Personally I thought the old IMI Timber Wolf looked like a pretty good design -- I wish it was still being made and marketed.
 
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Love me a nice pump gun. Always had a Remington 14-141 around and really liked my 14 1/2 I had. Sold them all to help my dad out, but would like if there were some new pumps made.
 
The 7615 was an interesting gun aimed at law enforcement. The idea was to have a 223 without the bad karma of militarized police with ARs. There were city councils that denounced their officers with the EBRs. They also said that officers could learn how to use it easily with transfer of training from 870s. Really didn't take off.

The earlier Ruger and Beretta 9mm guns were also designed to capture the Never AR market (new term I made up). However, the North Hollywood shoot out put a hold on that as 9mm wasn't a body armor gun. Now ARs are pretty accepted.

The new Rugers are very popular to inexpensive PCC matches, an easy gun to use for home SD and a compliant long arm for ban states. Get one without the threaded barrel and you are good to go in a number of states. There are lots of them in NYS

Even in non ban states, they are fun guns. When I lived in TX and shot IDPA, lots of folks had them. Put a red dot and a higher cap mag, great gun with relative inexpensive ammo. Put quality defensive ammo in it and it's nothing to sneer at.

Of course unless SCOTUS gets off its butt (Roberts - the blocker of gun rights, it seems), we will see more state semi bans and if Joe gets in with control Congress - we might be singing O'Canada. BTW, I like Canada as a country and know good gun folks there. Just saying.
 
Old time rimmed pistol caliber cartridges can be fired from a rifle but need a lever or pump format due to rimlock in traditional rifle magazines. The Ruger rotary mags for their 77-357 overcome the rimlock issues, at a very limited magazine capacirt and an annoying magazine format. Some people love the 77-357 and some don't. But if you like shooting 357 or 44 Mag from a rifle, it's got to be a pump or a lever (except for the Rugers) The emphasis seems to be on making lever rifles. Winchester has taken the approach of making museum-quality rifles now that cost a lot of money and will, I suppose, get shot rarely and looked at and admired often. I don't shoot my Winchester 94AE 357 rifles anymore. Winchester is not making them anymore, and parts are hard or impossible to come by for commonly needed repairs as those rifles age. In fact, Winchester (FNH/ FN America) has stopped doing any repair work on those rifles. The new, museum quality 94's are not being released in the 357 and 44 Mag calibers. In this world where young and older alike prefer optics, the Model 1873's and model 92's (which are top eject and can not use optics) only appeal to those who either want something to look at but not shoot or the young with good eyes, or the cowboy action shooters and while there are many of them, there are not THAT MANY of them. The people who can afford the new Winchester 73's and 92's are generally people old enough to "need" optics. I suppose that FN/Winchester is not releasing the new 94's in the pistol calibers because the 94 action was never really suitable for the pistol calibers anyway. If you've got a 94 in 357 or 44 and it runs well, and I do, count yourself lucky, very lucky and treat it like gold because they are not typically rifles that can take a lot of wear and tear and keep functioning. The 94's in 30 WCF (.30-30) are very robust. In 357, not so much.

So that leaves the Winchester clones which have their problems and the Marlins, no comment there. And that is where Henry found a big giant wide open door to walk right through. Their rifles work decently, look decently, generally, and allow shooting pistol caliber rimmed cartridges in a rifle. Nobody else gives you the reliability and function AND the ability to mount optics that Henry does. And they know it, so they price their rifles at a level that is close enough to Winchester to make many people pause when considering buying a Henry. So, we're back to limited choices for the pistol caliber rimmed cartridges. I think that if someone came out with a reliably functioning pump in 357 at a price that was not too high, they'd sell well.

I've got a Timberwolf. It is a fun rifle to shoot, holds well in the hand, very "handy". Handles well. Just all around fun. Shoots 357 and 38's. Very reliable. Really nice trigger. It has the best rifle trigger of any rifle I own.
For a long time it has been my sort of "main rifle to take to the range." However, at this point when I reach into the safe for it, it is like reaching for a $2,000 bill to take out for fun. It is getting harder and harder to reach for it when I'm headed for the range. Just too expensive to replace, impossible to get spare parts, just kind of makes me uncomfortable to take it and shoot it. Much easier to grab the home made AR pistol that is worth a few hundred dollars in today's market, if that, and take that out to get dirty and hot and throat-eroded. It may be time to retire the Timberwolf to the safe for safe keeping.
 
I took my first whitetail with my FIL's 760 in .30-06. He gave me that gun, and I eventually flipped it for a 760 Carbine in .308. I really liked the carbine, but it went in a round of downsizing during which I got out of .30 cals altogether. I have been watching for another 760 or 7600 in .243 ... or a 7615 should I find one at a reasonable price. Long story short, I did make an offer on a 7615 Police that is now in transit to me. I'll be happy with 2 MOA and expect it will do better. I wish someone would offer a pump in .357.
 
I took my first whitetail with my FIL's 760 in .30-06. He gave me that gun, and I eventually flipped it for a 760 Carbine in .308. I really liked the carbine, but it went in a round of downsizing during which I got out of .30 cals altogether. I have been watching for another 760 or 7600 in .243 ... or a 7615 should I find one at a reasonable price. Long story short, I did make an offer on a 7615 Police that is now in transit to me. I'll be happy with 2 MOA and expect it will do better. I wish someone would offer a pump in .357.

I can touch holes @ 50 yds with the Wilson peep sights on my 7615. It should doe around MOA I think.
 
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