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Pump shotgun speed

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by Oldnamvet, Jan 6, 2007.

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  1. Oldnamvet

    Oldnamvet Member

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    I have heard people say the 1300 speed pump is the fastest. But can one tell the difference when shooting between the 500, 870, 37, and 1300 as to how fast they can get the fired hull out and a fresh one in?
     
  2. SRG

    SRG Member

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  3. B. Adams

    B. Adams Member

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    Well, I can't really say for sure, but when I shot some clays with my dad over Christmas, he remarked that my second shot was quick with both of my 1300's. He'd never used a 1300 before, we've only used 870's and autos for as long as I can remember, and only lately Benelli pumps, so I guess that's saying something.

    They feel a little faster, but I don't know how big of a deal it really is. They're fast, but I've never noticed anything else being too slow. I use them because they fit me really well and I can get them up better than anything else I've used. I keep buying more of them because it's usually cheaper to buy the whole gun than just a new barrel. :D
     
  4. Blakenzy

    Blakenzy Member

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    FWIW, I used to fire my dad's 1300 Defender quite a bit back when I was a teenager. One day I decided to make some life size plywood targets, and shoot at them. Well, the stand I made was less than perfect and the target usually tipped over after the first shot. I then decided that I was going to try to hit it twice before it touched the ground, so I took it upon myself to make two shots as fast as I could manage. After a few attempts I could manage to put out two shots so fast that it sounded as if it was only one shot. Kind of a B-BANG. Seriously, when my dad heard the unusual report he came over running thinking the gun was malfunctioning or that I had loaded some type of wrong shells.

    The strange thing is that I can no longer do this anymore. I seem to have become very recoil sensitive. These days I much prefer making tight groups with a .22 to shredding a target with a shotgun. Well, I guess people change :rolleyes:

    Anyhow, I for one can vouch for the 1300's speed. It will give an autoloader a run for its money, with enough practice of course. Don't really know how fast you can get other pumps to work, as I am not really a shotgun person.
     
  5. Matthew Temkin

    Matthew Temkin Member

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    I too have found the 870 to be the fastest to pump.
     
  6. theCZ

    theCZ Member

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    Just bought a 28ga BPS a few months ago, and it has to be the smoothest out of the box pump I've ever used. Better than any 870, M12, 37, and my well used Winchester 1300. I'm not sure if it's just that it's a 28ga or if it's just a better design, but I'm amazed at how smooth and fast that thing is. That's my opinion.
     
  7. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

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    The fastest and most accurate shot I saw at the qualifiers in a recent combat shotgun course used a Remington 870. His technique mesmerized me. It was a snappy pump, shoot, pump, shoot with exactly (it was timed) the same interval in between shots no matter what his distance from the target. He knows how to run that gun.
     
  8. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    IMHO any variation in speed is going to be more a function of the shooter than the gun, assuming all works as it should. Not a question I'd worry about overmuch... question is, how fast can you HIT, not how fast can you shoot. Hitting is a function of the shooter not the gun. Hitting makes a difference, shooting just makes noise.

    Note the Jeff Cooper quote below...

    lpl/nc

    In the safe here, fwiw:
    Multiple Remington 870s, 12 and 20 ga.
    Multiple Mossberg 500s, 12 ga.
    Multiple Winchester 1300s, 12 and 20 ga.
    FN Police Shotgun, 12 ga.
    BPS, 12 ga.
    Ithaca 37, 12 ga.
    Savage Model 69 12 ga.
     
  9. brucets11

    brucets11 Member

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    Don't know that you can beat the speed of slam firing a Winchester 97.
     
  10. Oldnamvet

    Oldnamvet Member

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    What I was wondering about is getting an extra split second of time for the controlled second shot in skeet. I have O/U, SxS, and autos but just love pump guns for some strange reason.
     
  11. Dave McCracken

    Dave McCracken Moderator In Memoriam

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    I think the pianist is the crucial factor here, not the piano.

    I've trigger time in with 97s, 12s,1200/1300s, 37s, 500s, High Standards,and considerable with the 870. I see little difference in handling/shucking speed.

    I can get off an EFFECTIVE second shot with an 870 faster than someone can with an A-5. Chances are you can also.

    The secrets to fast shucking are BA/UU/R and elbow grease. A shotgun with wear marks YOU'VE put there is an excellent venue, regardless of what make or model.....
     
  12. TrapperReady

    TrapperReady Member

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    I'd agree. Around here, I've got a couple 870s, a couple Model 12s, a Model 42, a 1300 Defender, and Model 37. If I load in a few shells and shoot, pump, repeat until done, I can empty them all pretty darned fast. If I had to pick which seems fastest, I might lean towards the Model 42.

    However, outright speed of operating the action may be interesting, but isn't necessarily germane to the issue of hitting targets. Frankly, I think it's nothing more than marketing drivel. Unless you make your living hand-tossing a stack of clays into the air in front of massive crowds, the "speed" of any pump is probably about equal to any other.

    I've shot either skeet or sporting clay true pairs with all of the guns listed above. You've got time no matter what pump you're shooting. If you're having trouble getting off the second shot, then work on debugging the software, not replacing the hardware.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2007
  13. TrapperReady

    TrapperReady Member

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    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2007
  14. Piney Woods

    Piney Woods Member

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  15. RemingtonFreak870

    RemingtonFreak870 Member

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    My old 870's always pump better than any other pump I have ever tried...which is a few but not a ton. I can shoot 4 shells in under 3 seconds. I think I sometimes see how fast I can go and I would guess it is better than 1 per second. However, it is hard to get a new sight picture that fast after the blast of the gun. I would be willing to bet any good pump will pump faster than you can aim, as long as it pumps reliably it probably is as fast as you need. If you want to make sure and get a fast 870 get one that is 30 years old or more like I do, the older ones ate always smooth as butter and IMHO made slightly better than the express models at wally world. I will always find an old one in good shape rather than a new one, so far that has worked good for me, never had an 870 wear out and all of mine have been used when I got them. Maybe when I die my 870's will still be around for a new generation of hunters.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2007
  16. ithacalover

    ithacalover Member

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    Just guess what gun I'm going to talk about. That's right. But seriously, my Ithaca 37 Featherlight has slam-fired five rounds in two seconds (based on the video I took of me trying). I think every other gun besides the Brownig pump has a trigger disconnect. If It's too much of a concern, buy a semi-auto.
     
  17. RemingtonFreak870

    RemingtonFreak870 Member

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    Ithacalover, thats impressive, I need to video and practice. Did you hit your target with all those? That would be a true exhibition of skill.
     
  18. Zach S

    Zach S Member

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    In my experiance, if you have rearward pressure on the forend of an 870 or 500 when you fire, you have to release that pressure to rack it.

    On a 1300, if you have rearward pressure on the forend, it'll come back when you fire so racking it is a hair quicker. With practice, its pretty quick, a LEO that used to work in my area could outrun an auto easily with his 1300 while getting better hits.
     
  19. ithacalover

    ithacalover Member

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    Did I hit anything? Maybe air and the flat side of a barn had it happened to be going by! But more precise follow-up shots are a breeze, without much more patience.
     
  20. TonyRumore

    TonyRumore Member

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    It's not the arrow, it's the indian.

    Tony
     
  21. jaysouth

    jaysouth Member

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    There is a difference. I am a die hard fan of 870s and have one that my father won in a duck calling contest in 1953! In the ensuing years I have owned dozens more in every model imaginable.

    However, when I was a teenager, the gun of choice for 'sports' was a winchester m-12 pump. It does not have a disconnector. you can hold down on the trigger and shoot it as fast as you can slam the pump action back into battery. The 870 has a disconnector and one must release the trigger(let it go forward into reset) before firing the next round.

    Yes, you can shoot a Winchester M-12, Remington Model 30 or Ithaca Model 37 faster than an 870. However there are more important features that make the 870 a better gun for me.

    As a teenager, I used to work duck clubs during season in the Stuttgart, AR area. I always carried my M-12 because I was so proud of it and just knew that it made me more of a sport that someone carrying a lowly mossberg, savage or Remington.

    I used to make more money wagering with dude hunters than my fees and tips as a dog boy or decoy boy. When I spotted a dude carrying a shiny new Browning Auto 5, I would wager him that I could put three hulls on the floor of the duck blind from my M-12 than he could with a Browning Auto. Folks, this is a sucker bet. The Winchester pump can get off three rounds a lot faster than a recoil operated browning auto. I always picked on dudes with new hunting clothes recently purchased just for this trip and shiny new guns that indicated to me that these folks were tenderfeet. I learned to keep my mouth shut around hunters carrying gas operated autoloaders. I learned that I was the sucker trying to out shoot these guns.

    With the old guys that did not shiver in the blind and wore old canvas hunting clothes and carried well worn M-97s or Fox double barrels, I remained deferential. kept my mouth shut and fetched their coffee and brandy and downed ducks.

    Nothing like getting up at 0300 and breaking ice with my waders to put out decoys.

    The only gun that I will take out in the woods is an 870 Express. I once dropped a Perazzi on the ground at a skeet range. It cost me over $600 to repair the forearm and fix the ding in rib. To do $600 worth of damage to an 870 Express, I would have to leave three of them on a railroad track.

    I have used an 870 express to paddle a boat, tighten barbed wire and as a jack handle. It will still shoot better than I can point it. Faster than a pump without a disconnector, Nah, but speed does't count as much as accuracy and dependablity.
     
  22. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    it must be because of the ....

    "SPEED PUMP" text on the side of the receiver :rolleyes:

    OBTW....me like speed pump!
     
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