tyeo098
Member
The ATF.
Right, and it was made with a serial number. Which was erased. Which is a federal felony for possession.
Is that all you care about?
Putting a Price on a "Priceless" M1917?
- Thread starter CmdrSlander
- Start date
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The ATF.
airedaleman
Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2010
- Messages
- 153
The National Firearms Act of 1934 made it a Federal crime to alter or deface an existing serial number.
Jim Watson
Member
That makes it immediately obvious that the serial number and other identifying information were intentionally removed and the removal concealed.
Illegal to do, illegal to own. Period.
Will the Ruby Ridge - Waco SWAT Team be at her door? Probably not.
But no reputable dealer or collector will touch it with a ten foot pole.
firesky101
Member
whatever is concluded if destruction is the path, please just have the receiver torched so the gun can be rebuilt, it sounds so beautiful. I have a beat 1917 that could be the donor.
Chris-bob
Member
If it's priceless...why sell it?
Chris-bob
Member
So if the sale is not interstate, then it is legal. As long as the markings were removed prior to the law being in effect. Just the way I read it.
mljdeckard
Member
Back to the topic, Looking at the description of the rifle....I really don't see anything that makes it worth more than any other very good condition 1917.
Customization doesn't increase the value on most things. The seller says; "Look at the work that went into this gun!" The buyer hears; "Look how this gun has been tweaked and messed with."
Customization doesn't increase the value on most things. The seller says; "Look at the work that went into this gun!" The buyer hears; "Look how this gun has been tweaked and messed with."
madcratebuilder
Member
A sporterized M1917 has little value unless it was owned by, or the work done by, a person of notoriety. This M1917 does not qualify for C&R because it has been altered. The lack of a serial number would be a good question for the atf&e. Probably legal because of the age.
The legal advise being offered in this thread is dubious at best.
The legal advise being offered in this thread is dubious at best.
tyeo098
Member
This is incorrect note how the law says "AT ANY TIME" for the interstate commerce part.
So if all the rifles parts were made in the same state as the owner, and never left the state, its fine.
Otherwise (and most likely) its not fine. Dis-assemble the rifle, and destory the receiver. Buy another m1917 and reassemble. That is the only option, save destroying the entire rifle.
Chris-bob
Member
If I move to another state with said firearm, then decide to sell it, it would be legal to do so. If I traveled to another state for purpose of selling said firearm, or sold said firearm knowingly to an out of state person, then I would be held accountable.
Otherwise, according to your interpretation, you would have to give the firearm to the local law enforcement if you ever moved out of state or didn't want it anymore.
Otherwise, according to your interpretation, you would have to give the firearm to the local law enforcement if you ever moved out of state or didn't want it anymore.
tyeo098
Member
No, thats not at all what that means.
The interstate commerce clause in congress' way of saying "This applies to all guns, because at one point they were ALL involved in interstate commerce."
Why do you think the Montana "Made in Montana" rule works? Because if all the parts were made in Montana, and the rifle never left Montana, none of the "Interstate Commerce" rules apply. As it should.
People from Montana can make their own Full Auto/SBR/SBS/Supressors anything. Without government oversight. No one has tried it yet, as no one wants to be the test case for State vs Fed law.
I hate to say this but I don't think she'll be able to get much, if anything, out of that rifle. There isn't that much demand for a sporterized 1917, especially in an oddball caliber like .35 Whelen. The fact that the serial number is gone adds another complication.
In order for it to have value, someone has to want it, and with the oddball caliber and lack of serial number I think she'll have a hard time finding a buyer.
In order for it to have value, someone has to want it, and with the oddball caliber and lack of serial number I think she'll have a hard time finding a buyer.
Liberty1776
Member
To answer the original question = and assuming the gun is legal (which I don't believe it to be) it's worth $250-$400. That's the best range of a "custom" sporter done by an average, unknown smith. While it may not be bubba'd, it sure sounds like it was funkamatized...
tyeo098 Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrmn
Who gives a rat's butt about a serial number on a 1917??
The ATF.
Quote:
It was made long before they were required and it is indeed the OP's problem--not yours.
Right, and it was made with a serial number. Which was erased. Which is a federal felony for possession.
Quote:
Let's just see some pics of this beauty.
"Is that all you care about? "
Pretty much---I don't jump on these threads just to hammer away at the OP's telling them how to handle their business. If they ask advise, I give it best I can and move on. If they are obviously in the wrong--tell them once and they've been informed. These people aren't so soft in the head they don't get your point. I get the impression you just like to assert your imaginary superior intelligence and shout down everyone else on the forum. Nevermind if it helps the OP. You made your point in one post-get over it.
Originally Posted by mtrmn
Who gives a rat's butt about a serial number on a 1917??
The ATF.
Quote:
It was made long before they were required and it is indeed the OP's problem--not yours.
Right, and it was made with a serial number. Which was erased. Which is a federal felony for possession.
Quote:
Let's just see some pics of this beauty.
"Is that all you care about? "
Pretty much---I don't jump on these threads just to hammer away at the OP's telling them how to handle their business. If they ask advise, I give it best I can and move on. If they are obviously in the wrong--tell them once and they've been informed. These people aren't so soft in the head they don't get your point. I get the impression you just like to assert your imaginary superior intelligence and shout down everyone else on the forum. Nevermind if it helps the OP. You made your point in one post-get over it.
BrocLuno
Member
We can offer more barracks lawbreaking, but it looks like the prices has fallen to maybe $400? Now, we are in my kinda "sporterized" price range. I wanna see some pictures. I might be interested
There is a lot of fail in this thread. I found some references from the ATF itself that show that, without a serial number, the rifle can not be sold without committing a felony.
So, in it's present condition, the value is essentially nothing as both the seller and buyer would be committing felonies if the gun is sold.
Note that the law basically says that if it *ever* had a serial number, then it is a felony to remove that serial number or posses a firearm with a removed serial number. (It's a different situation for guns original manufactured without a serial number from before serial numbers where required. That's not the case here).
Now, there are references to an ATF procedure to restore serial numbers or assign new serial numbers. I'm not sure what makes a firearm elegible for sucha procedure.
Here's a link to an ATF publication and then the relevant text quoted:
As to "Why does it matter?" a Federal Felony is a serious crime. And, one of the goals of The High Road has always been to portray responsible gun ownership and part of that is obeying the firearms laws as written. In my opinion, encourgaging others to commit a felony or saying "that felony doesn't matter" doesn't meet that part of THR's goal.
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
(k) It shall be unlawful for any person
knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in
interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm
which has had the importer's or
manufacturer's serial number removed,
obliterated, or altered, or to possess or
receive any firearm which has had the
importer's or manufacturer's serial number
removed, obliterated, or altered and has,
at any time, been shipped or transported
in interstate or foreign commerce.
So, in it's present condition, the value is essentially nothing as both the seller and buyer would be committing felonies if the gun is sold.
Note that the law basically says that if it *ever* had a serial number, then it is a felony to remove that serial number or posses a firearm with a removed serial number. (It's a different situation for guns original manufactured without a serial number from before serial numbers where required. That's not the case here).
Now, there are references to an ATF procedure to restore serial numbers or assign new serial numbers. I'm not sure what makes a firearm elegible for sucha procedure.
Here's a link to an ATF publication and then the relevant text quoted:
As to "Why does it matter?" a Federal Felony is a serious crime. And, one of the goals of The High Road has always been to portray responsible gun ownership and part of that is obeying the firearms laws as written. In my opinion, encourgaging others to commit a felony or saying "that felony doesn't matter" doesn't meet that part of THR's goal.
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
(k) It shall be unlawful for any person
knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in
interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm
which has had the importer's or
manufacturer's serial number removed,
obliterated, or altered, or to possess or
receive any firearm which has had the
importer's or manufacturer's serial number
removed, obliterated, or altered and has,
at any time, been shipped or transported
in interstate or foreign commerce.
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