Putting an old marlin right again.

[Obturation]

Hey all,
Had an old marlin follow me home. When I say old, I mean it.

It's not a 39a and it's not a '97, it's their forefather - the 1892. Whoa.

I'm not a gunsmith. I don't even play one on tv. I am going to get this thing torn down, cleaned up. worn , damaged and missing parts replaced and get it shooting again.

First, let's get a closer look.

Not too bad.

Oh, 100 years of gak inside. Thick crumbly carbon goo.


Very dirty. It's to be expected. Only missing part I found is the carrier rocker, screw and spring. The rest appears to be there. I've got one screw broken off in the ejector and the toe of the stock is chipped off.
So a set of springs, the carrier rocker (and associated parts) , replace the wood (going to try to use the for end on my 97 (it's missing ) and just restock this one. Not really worried about collectors value, I plan to shoot this one - I don't sell my guns . so having repro wood doesn't bother me.
I'll be making my way through this thing and posting pictures along the way.

Going to let it sit like this for a while:

Got the barrel full of clp , looks like the rifling is strong but it's hard to tell through the thick crust and lead.
I only plan to use this one for short range , low velocity plinking anyway and I don't expect the accuracy I get from my pristine 1957 made 39a. But I guess we'll see!


Tips and tricks for this old guy are very welcome . I'm not sure where this is going to take me.

 

[Obturation]

Ok. Not the carrier rocker. Appears to be cartridge stop.

 

[Johnm1]

Are you in for some fun. I assume yours is in 22 LR as you didn't mention anything about finding 32 Colt. The 1892, or '92 as it became known, came in either caliber. Jack First and Wisners both have new parts for your rifle. The Achilleus heel of the rifle are the pivot points/pins and the tube magazine. Get slop in the pins and things can get uncontrolled. There aren't a lot of choices if the magazine tube needs repair/replacement.

Wisner's Inc | Obsolete reproduction firearms manufacturer
Marlin 1892 .22 &.32 lever rifle – Jack First Inc. (myshopify.com)

I have been working on mine for almost a year. Don't let that worry you, I get distracted a lot. I have a long standing thread on the Marlin Owners forum about mine here:

1892 Rifle | Marlin Firearms Forum (marlinowners.com)

Regarding the magazine tube

1892 Outer Magazine Tube | Marlin Firearms Forum (marlinowners.com)

And the Ejector

1892 Ejector | Marlin Firearms Forum (marlinowners.com)

The 32 and the 22 are almost identical. There were some design changes along the way though. Not all had a cartridge cut off.

Have fun with it. I personally would repair the original wood if possible unless it is a big chunk of wood missing. But that's just me. I love the way it feels when shouldered and it swings better than most of my shotguns. But I'm not a large person either. So the 'youth' type dimensions fit me well.

 

[Jeff62]

You got me thinking about beater hunting. I hope you keep posting on this project.

 

[Obturation]

Are you in for some fun. I assume yours is in 22 LR as you didn't mention anything about finding 32 Colt. The 1892, or '92 as it became known, came in either caliber. Jack First and Wisners both have new parts for your rifle. The Achilleus heel of the rifle are the pivot points/pins and the tube magazine. Get slop in the pins and things can get uncontrolled. There aren't a lot of choices if the magazine tube needs repair/replacement.

Wisner's Inc | Obsolete reproduction firearms manufacturer
Marlin 1892 .22 &.32 lever rifle – Jack First Inc. (myshopify.com)

I have been working on mine for almost a year. Don't let that worry you, I get distracted a lot. I have a long standing thread on the Marlin Owners forum about mine here:

1892 Rifle | Marlin Firearms Forum (marlinowners.com)

Regarding the magazine tube

1892 Outer Magazine Tube | Marlin Firearms Forum (marlinowners.com)

And the Ejector

1892 Ejector | Marlin Firearms Forum (marlinowners.com)

The 32 and the 22 are almost identical. There were some design changes along the way though. Not all had a cartridge cut off.

Have fun with it. I personally would repair the original wood if possible unless it is a big chunk of wood missing. But that's just me. I love the way it feels when shouldered and it swings better than most of my shotguns. But I'm not a large person either. So the 'youth' type dimensions fit me well.

I'm familiar with these things to an extent .so I chanced into this one because I have a '97 that I bought about 6 years ago. I've never fired it, in fact I only had it in my hands for about 3 days before I drove it over to my gunsmith and dropped it off. It was missing the for end , for end cap and magazine latch. My gunsmith is probably in his late 70s or early 80s and isn't extremely active and so he's very very very very slooooooow. I'm aware of it and he does top notch work for cheap bit it takes years.
He hadn't been active on the 97 in a couple years and I wanted to light a fire under his butt and show up with all the parts I knew for sure we're missing.

The forearm that I found was the one on this rifle, I just bought he whole thing instead of just the front parts.

I figured I'll attempt this one and take the other parts I sourced over to my Smith and get him moving. Hopefully by next year I'll have both done which will mean I've got a 1892, '97 & 39a. Kind of the whole evolution of an awesome rifle.

Like I mentioned, I'm no gunsmith. I'm an auto mechanic. I can take things apart and fix them but I also know if I'm in too deep. I'll seek help if I get to that point. The price on this rifle was too good to pass up and ots really mostly there and not really pitted, just kinda brown and loosy goosey.

The stock chip is bad. Like this:

And this:

I think it's done.

The forend has a crack but not clear through and isn't too bad:


My thought was to use it on the 97 if it fits after it gets a little fixin and the finish should be pretty close to the stock hopefully.
The 1892 I figured just repkace the wood with repop walnut and stain it. Not trying to fool anyone just want it as a cool old shooter. The wood will catch up after a while.

Going to just see where the project goes. I'm not shooting much these days- it's 12° here today and primers are MIA . should be good to keep me occupied for a while.

 

[Johnm1]

The stock chip is bad. Like this:

Yeah, that might be better described as a 'chunk'. I see where you are going with the project. Same here, just my wood is more than serviceable. FYI, they are not difficult to work on and once you stare at it a while it becomes clear how it works. Also, the 1891 and the early 1892's didn't have the cartridge cut off. It was only after years of use/wear that Marlin figured out that the original design wouldn't feed long and short cartridges after some of the parts wore. So they added the cartridge cut off.

 

[Obturation]

Yeah, that might be better described as a 'chunk'. I see where you are going with the project. Same here, just my wood is more than serviceable. FYI, they are not difficult to work on and once you stare at it a while it becomes clear how it works. Also, the 1891 and the early 1892's didn't have the cartridge cut off. It was only after years of use/wear that Marlin figured out that the original design wouldn't feed long and short cartridges after some of the parts wore. So they added the cartridge cut off.

There's a good chance in calling the part incorrectly . it's this thing:


I'd call that a cartridge stop but I'm not sure. Jack first doesn't show that part im looking for it now- do you know?
Yes, it's a 22.

Yep, that stock is hurt bad.

Also realized it's missing the rear sight elevator. So I'm not getting too hasty, Going to just make a formal list of parts i know I need and gather them. First does have most of the springs. I figured replace them, why not. And I'm going to replace the lever pivot screw- there's some play there - not terrible but the screw is cheap.

 

[Johnm1]

Words (names in this case) do have meaning and I am real bad about using words/names interchangeably and incorrectly. Complicating things is the lack of original documents. After your questioning the name of the part a second time, I wasn't sure I had not interchanged an incorrect term/name.

Not that the below is the end all be all as I don't know its true source, other than the internet, but it describes the missing part as a magazine cartridge cut off. And I don't know of a manufacturer for it. Wisners doesn't appear to have it either.

EDIT: The source of the parts list was from this post.
https://www.gunboards.com/threads/marlin-1892-lever-action-22-rimfire.1147155/

There is a part called the cartridge stop as well. FYI my rifle has neither.

 

[Obturation]

Words (names in this case) do have meaning and I am real bad about using words/names interchangeably and incorrectly. Complicating things is the lack of original documents. After your questioning the name of the part a second time, I wasn't sure I had not interchanged an incorrect term/name.

Not that the below is the end all be all as I don't know its true source, other than the internet, but it describes the missing part as a magazine cartridge cut off. And I don't know of a manufacturer for it. Wisners doesn't appear to have it either.

There is a part called the cartridge stop as well. FYI my rifle has neither.

View attachment 977530

Right. Magazine cartridge cut off. The spacer and screw are no problem. I saw that the cutoff for a 39a works too but takes some trimming most times. I'm on the lookout for one , if it gets impossible I can take one from either my 97 or 39a (whichever is most similar ) and measure it to make one. It's not ideal but not impossible , I can do some metal work . either way , it's no big deal I'm still on day 1 of tinkering with it and I'm not in any hurry.

My first task is to get it all the way taken apart and everything cleaned up so I can determine what's worn , broken or missing. Got all the small parts sitting in a Tupperware of atf. Maybe not the best thing but it will soften up the worst of it.

I'm just going to take each piece individually and clean it up and figure what's what. Nobody's been up inside there for a long time, some traces of blue paint on some internal parts- who knows. That thing has been around the block a couple times in the last century , I wouldn't say it's excessively worn though and the design allows easy disassembly and a fair number of parts are out there. I'll know for sure once I get the bore cleaned up, I don't think it's a sewer pipe though .

If anyone reading this has a spare magazine cartridge cutoff for a 1892, 92, 1897, 97, 39 / 39a let me know, I'm in the market for one.

 

[Johnm1]

Two other threads on feed issues

http://www.marlin-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5862&sid=39f07e4386024745c88fd002246e3cef

https://www.gunboards.com/threads/marlin-1892-lever-action-22-rimfire.1147155/

I have a dumb question,. Does it feed reliably without the cartridge cut off?

 

[Obturation]

Two other threads on feed issues

http://www.marlin-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5862&sid=39f07e4386024745c88fd002246e3cef

https://www.gunboards.com/threads/marlin-1892-lever-action-22-rimfire.1147155/

I have a dumb question,. Does it feed reliably without the cartridge cut off?

Valid question. I don't know but I could see that being a possibility . I had that thought too, I will say that the spot where it goes was covered in some funk so it may have been gone a long time. Either way I'll get one in there, I like shorts and I doubt it would run without it in that case . full length lr may be just the right length and allow it to function. I saw that where some of the older versions weren't equipped with that part at all.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

The way I see my 39A action's Magazine Cartridge Cutoff, it is essential for controlled feed of all cartridge sizes, Short, Long and Long Rifle. It releases one cartridge at a time to sit loosely on the cartridge carrier/lifter.

JB Wood's Trouble Shooting Your Rifle and Shotgun: "The cartridge stop, or cartridge cut-off as Marlin calls it, is screw mounted on the left inside wall of the receiver, just below the ejector housing. Occasionally when someone is checking for loose screws, they will give the screw which mounts this part a slight turn and move the part just enough to wedge it against the upper edge of its recess in the receiver. As a result there is nothing to stop the next round in the magazine while the action is cycled and there will be a spectacular jam. When tightening this particular screw, the cartridge stop should be carefully centered ... while the screw is set."

I suspect on the opening poster's rifle, some one may have unscrewed the screw holding the cut-off and the cut-off was lost. A lot of people like to tighten all the screw heads on a gun. Maybe there a few people who like to loosen screws to see what falls off.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

The forefather of the Marlin 1892 was the 1891 model which had a side loading gate.
I have tried to image stuffing twenty-five .22 Shorts through a side loading gate.
I suspect there were reasons the 1891 was replaced by the 1892.

 

[Johnm1]

The way I see my 39A action's Magazine Cartridge Cutoff, it is essential for controlled feed of all cartridge sizes, Short, Long and Long Rifle. It releases one cartridge at a time to sit loosely on the cartridge carrier/lifter.

And I suspect that is true for the 39A and the 1892/92 rifles that are fitted with a Magazine Cartridge Cutoff. But the early 1892's that didn't have a cut off were advertised as feeding short, long, and long rifle. How they accomplished this is somewhat of a mystery. This is a picture of mine and it doesn't have have a magazine cartridge cut off. Notice how the carrier is blocking the magazine follower in this picture. I am led to believe* that the carrier would travel down just enough to allow a round to exit the magazine and quickly 'snap's back up to this position blocking the rim of the next cartridge. Thus it didn't matter how long the cartridge in the carrier was.

* this revalation is from reading/researching a lot of internet posts. Even the oldest of us ar 50 years too young to have first hand knowledge. So we have to take what we think we know with a grain of salt.

 

[Johnm1]

As you can see in the above picture there is no relief cut into the receiver for a cut off. It is my understanding, again from other users on the internet, that Marlin became aware that over time and with wear feeding became an issue and changed the design to include the cut off. Some on the internet believe Marlin actually retrofitted older guns with the newer cut off.

The parts picture above also shows a cartridge stop. But I dont understand what it does or how it would work. To the best of my knowledge mine doesn't have one and never did. I'm not sure where it would go.

 

[tws3b2]

Fixing up old guns can get frustrating and aggravating. Can't find parts, get wrong parts, everything goes wrong. Sometimes there is so little information around about that gun that you just have to figure it out on your own. But, when your finished and the old gal's shooting again. It's all worth it. I been fixing old beat up, abused, stuck back in the corner and forgotten, worthless to many long guns for a few years now. Most times it cost more than it will ever be worth. But, I love it.

 

[Obturation]

Fixing up old guns can get frustrating and aggravating. Can't find parts, get wrong parts, everything goes wrong. Sometimes there is so little information around about that gun that you just have to figure it out on your own. But, when your finished and the old gal's shooting again. It's all worth it. I been fixing old beat up, abused, stuck back in the corner and forgotten, worthless to many long guns for a few years now. Most times it cost more than it will ever be worth. But, I love it.

Right, not something to do for profit. Actually kind of the opposite - can't afford a clean version of the same gun- got to rebuild a forgotten relic.
I've done the old rifle parts search and I know it's a long process . no big deal if you've got plenty of shooting rifles already . definitely not for someone who will use it as their first/only rifle.
I have patience and an appreciation for old things.

 

[Johnm1]

If you haven't seen this before it is a good read on the history of marlin lever actions.

http://leeroysramblings.com/marlin_lever_action_rimfire_rif.html

 

[wiscoaster]

I have patience and an appreciation for old things.

 

[dfariswheel]

I don't think Marlin added a cartridge cut off stop spacer until in the mid-1950's.
My 1950 model 39-A has no spacer under the stop.
The stop in mine is a milled steel spring, later versions had the stamped stop and the spacer under it.

I think it was mentioned in the first post about using Standard Velocity ammo in the older rifles.
The first Marlin that was safe for High Velocity ammo was the Model 39 made in the later 1930's and had a "HS" serial number prefix.
Earlier models will break the bolt if fired with High Speed ammo.

Depending on the condition of the barrel and the muzzle crown you might be shocked at how accurate an old Marlin can be.
Up until the Micro-Groove rifling of the early 50's the old rifles were rifled one groove at a time by making many passes with a rifling cutter. This was called Ballard rifling by Marlin.

If the barrel is bad you could even line it with a new barrel liner and get excellent accuracy.

 

[Obturation]

Ok so...
I got everything torn down, cleaned up and put back together with a list of parts I'll need.
I reassembled everything so nothing gets lost (that magazine tube is a real booger!).
The bore is rough. Yeah, sewer pipe. Not the end of the world I figured I'll just see if the darn thing goes bang. In fact it does. I have no rear sight elevator so no way to gauge accuracy. I noticed that shooting CB shorts , it's loud. Way louder than anything else I've shot them in. The fired cases look unusual and I suspect the bolt isn't completely going into battery or the chamber is just so darn sloppy. The empty cases look like this:



Either that mainspring is hitting harder than any I've ever seen or the breechface is eroded or something? Maybe it's cut out where the pin strikes as to not damage the breechface is cut to avoid a strike when you run empty? I don't know. The sound was unusual but fired and ejected just fine.

There is some displaced metal around where the bolt closes into the receiver and it looks like it's been tampered with. The other thing I noticed is that when the lever is closed and the hammer is cocked, the bolt is not up tight to the breech face
Kinda tough to see, but I can push it up tight or it sits up tight when the hammers down


I think there's some serious wear going on inside.

I'm not going to give up, I'll figure something out. If it ends up that this girls just too tired I'll use her parts to complete my '97. Not the end of the world and the good parts I've got cost me waaaay less than hunting down and buying all the bad parts on the 97. So either way it's all good.

Thoughts??

 

[Johnm1]

Well, lock up is one of the few functions that you can see with the sideplate removed. I too had a very loose bolt and found an NOS bolt at Numrich. Here is a picture of my new bolt held rigidly in place by the finger lever.



Partially unlocked

 

[Stan Rosen]

Looks like progress. I'm excited to see the finished product. Have you tried the shorts with the new bolt yet?

 

[Obturation]

Looks like progress. I'm excited to see the finished product. Have you tried the shorts with the new bolt yet?

No new bolt, can't find one but I'm not sure I need one .
I am planning to put in a barrel liner, the tools can be rented and the liner is $35. That's the next thing I'll be doing, along with searching for a couple parts.
So hopefully I can get all that together in the next couple weeks and then I'll see what she does. I'm going to get a pipe that'll fit the whole rifle inside and let that puppy sit in some kerosene for a couple weeks in hopes the barrel threads off relatively easily. It'll be a project and I will certainly keep this thread updated with my latest progress. Thanks for reading!

 

[Johnm1]

We have a little cross Communication here. I am the one with the new bolt. Obturation, the original poster, has a new 22 that this post is about. Mine is a 32 colt. Although the 32 colt came in long and short just like the 22. I have not been able to get the Longs to feed reliably over time. I have, been able to feed the Longs for short periods of time. 10–20 rounds at a time. I doubt I will ever be able to shoot shorts in mine as it has neither the magazine cut off or the cartridge stop.