Pyrodex, Triple 7, or the real deal...

[skeeterfogger]

Any will work with proper load work up.
I've used Pyrodex for bunches of years. Only issue I've had is RS in percussion rifles there was the very intermittent ignition hesitation. I have always used P in my revolver and found using P in my rifle ended the issue. So my vote should you use Pyrodex I would stick with P in pistol and rifle.

 

[arcticap]

I do find this in this book....

which gives pyrodex an advantage as far as cleaning in between shots.

“The rule is: do not let fouling build up. This rule changes, however, with different powders and even lubrications. For example, several shots can be fired in a row without undue powder buildup with Pyrodex, while regular blackpowder normally requires more frequent in-betweens-shot-string bore cleaning.”

— The Complete Blackpowder Handbook: The Latest Guns and Gear by Sam Fadala

So my vote should you use Pyrodex I would stick with P in pistol and rifle.

IIRC correctly Fadala preferred and/or recommended loading 3F in everything too.
So when he loaded Pyrodex, he was probably loading Pyrodex P which burns cleaner and using that as a comparison.to black powder.

Also, in some places with low humidty, black powder fouling has been said to be more hard and crusty than where it's more humid.
And I think that Fadala lived in Arizona which is known for low humidity.
So maybe that's why he ended up needing to swab his barrel more, due to hard crusty Arizona BP fouling.

 

[rodwha]

I’ve made several designs for cap n ball bullets through Accurate Molds. I didn’t feel these revolvers, even my 7.5” ROA, needed so much lube, and I was right. I use the old Gatofeo’s #1 recipe and have shot P, RS, T7, and Olde E and have shot maybe 10 cylinders at one time without any issues with fouling, even Pyrodex. It’s all in the lube as was mentioned. Even if it’s just a little:

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-195C-D.png

 

[brewer12345]

The big lube bullets look kind of like a maxi ball. I always wondered why maxi balls had such big lube grooves. I suppose that is why.

 

[woodnbow]

IIRC correctly Fadala preferred and/or recommended loading 3F in everything too.
So when he loaded Pyrodex, he was probably loading Pyrodex P which burns cleaner and using that as a comparison.to black powder.

Also, in some places with low humidty, black powder fouling has been said to be more hard and crusty than where it's more humid.
And I think that Fadala lived in Arizona which is known for low humidity.
So maybe that's why he ended up needing to swab his barrel more, due to hard crusty Arizona BP fouling.

I definitely agree that the fouling in the arid west is much crunchier than what you may experience back east, or in more humid climes. I had long been in the habit of blowing down the muzzle of a just fired rifle. Partly to extinguish any smoldering embers and partly to keep the fouling softer. When we lived in the Carolinas I didn’t do either as it wasn’t really needed.
I always thought Fadala looked down on the practice of loading fffg into rifles of .40 caliber or greater. He did warn repeatedly of higher pressures resulting from using equal volumes of fffg VS ffg...

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

The big lube bullets look kind of like a maxi ball. I always wondered why maxi balls had such big lube grooves. I suppose that is why.

I'm pretty sure the Maxi Ball was the inspiration for the first Big Lube bullet, the 45 caliber 250 grain PRS bullet. It is shown in the photo with the 44-40 and 45 Colt round. It is the bullet next to the 45 Colt round.

The idea is the thinner 'wasp waist' under the lube will undergo vertical compression as pressure is exerted against the rear of the bullet. This compression will help force some of the lube out of the lube groove and into the rifling. That's the theory anyway and it seems to work.

 

[brewer12345]

I'm pretty sure the Maxi Ball was the inspiration for the first Big Lube bullet, the 45 caliber 250 grain PRS bullet. It is shown in the photo with the 44-40 and 45 Colt round. It is the bullet next to the 45 Colt round.

The idea is the thinner 'wasp waist' under the lube will undergo vertical compression as pressure is exerted against the rear of the bullet. This compression will help force some of the lube out of the lube groove and into the rifling. That's the theory anyway and it seems to work.

They shoot like a house on fire in my hawken, the only problem is that with the metal butt plate it kills on both ends.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Actually Sam Fadala is in Nevada, I met him about 15 years ago. Really nice guy.

 

[Steve S.]

Last season, I shot a deer with my Pro Hunter; dropped like a rock but was still breathing when I arrived. I knelt down next to it’s head and noticed that it was crying; I said, “I am sorry for shooting you but it is deer season and I have a permit.” The deer then looked at me and said, “OMG, you had the gaul to shoot me with Pyrodex Pellets - I hate you for that, a pox upon your house - the deer then took it’s last breath and expired.
I felt horrible; I then sadly drug myself back to my blind to retrieve my knife. At the stand, I was shocked to find that my Pro Hunter barrel had completely rusted away while I was talking to the deer. It had been a very bad day.

 

[Eyrie G. Dogg]

Gay.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

You mean alternative life style.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr.Steve S., im sorry for your experience....but you did bring it upon yourself for using Pyrodex. Now, because of your careless use of pyrodex, a pox was upon your house and has spread into the general public...the people need to know that you are the real cause for covid-19. Lesson here is that pyrodex is so bad it can cause the economy to suffer and people to die. You dont want that on your concious...just ask Mr.Steve S.

 

[dave951]

Well I did find a use for a pound of old pyrodex I had in the cabinet. This year, moles have decided to ruin my lawn. After reading the dissertation on the cyanide byproducts in the smoke of burned pryodex, I decided to give it a chance. I poured pyrodex down every mole hole I could find, linked with cannon fuse and waited for the entertainment to commence. Shortly after, whoom! A number of small smoking craters in the affected part of the lawn. Months later, no moles. Perhaps the cyanide smoke was effective? IDK... but it was fun....

 

[woodnbow]

Well I did find a use for a pound of old pyrodex I had in the cabinet. This year, moles have decided to ruin my lawn. After reading the dissertation on the cyanide byproducts in the smoke of burned pryodex, I decided to give it a chance. I poured pyrodex down every mole hole I could find, linked with cannon fuse and waited for the entertainment to commence. Shortly after, whoom! A number of small smoking craters in the affected part of the lawn. Months later, no moles. Perhaps the cyanide smoke was effective? IDK... but it was fun....

This sounds like something I could do! Don’t have any moles but the skunks are loving my crop of grubs!

 

[Dave T]

This past Friday I got to the range to test my first batch of Big Lube bullets in the 45 Colt. I have a "Pre-War" model USFA 4-3/4" revolver (complete with a black powder frame).

It is built so well and so tight, the first time I tried black powder cartridges in it I couldn't get through second cylinder (less than 10 rounds). The fouling started binding the thing so bad I couldn't advance it pulling back on the hammer. This was with the old Lyman #454190 bullet lubed with SPG.

Friday in 90 degree heat and very dry conditions (humidity less than 15% by mid morning) I fired all 50 rounds I had with me. I never cleaned anything and the revolver functioned smoothly through the whole session. My biggest problem was the heat generated by the burning Old Eynsford black powder. The gun got so hot I had to set it aside to cool twice before I could handle it to reload.

The shape isn't traditional but I am sold on the Big Lube bullets for any shooting when more than a few rounds will be fired.

Dave

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Large lube grooves are the way to go when it comss to black powder. I created a tapered hydrid of a big lube and REAL bullet for my .36 cal navies. My guns never bind and fouling is never a problem. Here they are compared to a kaido conical...notice how deep and wide the grooves are almost like a big lube.

 

[.38 Special]

This past Friday I got to the range to test my first batch of Big Lube bullets in the 45 Colt. I have a "Pre-War" model USFA 4-3/4" revolver (complete with a black powder frame).

It is built so well and so tight, the first time I tried black powder cartridges in it I couldn't get through second cylinder (less than 10 rounds). The fouling started binding the thing so bad I couldn't advance it pulling back on the hammer. This was with the old Lyman #454190 bullet lubed with SPG.

Friday in 90 degree heat and very dry conditions (humidity less than 15% by mid morning) I fired all 50 rounds I had with me. I never cleaned anything and the revolver functioned smoothly through the whole session. My biggest problem was the heat generated by the burning Old Eynsford black powder. The gun got so hot I had to set it aside to cool twice before I could handle it to reload.

The shape isn't traditional but I am sold on the Big Lube bullets for any shooting when more than a few rounds will be fired.

Dave

That is a gorgeous gun!

Your experience with Big Lube bullets matches mine. I use SPG or Gatofeo, and have fired as many as 150 rounds in a session with a New Vaquero. Accurate and powerful loads with no issues other than a really hot gun!

 

[rodwha]

I haven’t needed large lube grooves and have shot as many as 10 cylinders in a sitting using Olde E and Gatofeo lube, whether it be in the hot and humid Texas summers or when it’s colder and more dry.

If I had Uberti’s carbine I’d change my tune no doubt.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr.rodwha i too have noticed that with our short barrels very large lube grooves arent necessary. Although i love my design...i do wish i hadnt made the grooves so deep so as to get more lead weight on the bullet and use less lube. my experiment worked with wide deep grooves....but i do feel also that the type of lube used makes a very huge difference. Now i dont even lube the grooves...just use a thin waxy lube disc.

 

[rodwha]

That’s what I figured I’d add if I ever got a carbine. Lube the grooves and add a lube cookie or something.

But then I’ve also seen how much extra lead I can get in mine and still keep my accurate powder charge the same so wider/deeper grooves might be just fine anyway. If a .45 cal lead ball penetrates as well and as deeply as it does than I figure adding 49 grns has to be that much better. But this flies in the face of the need for heft for penetration. Of course I feel a bit differently when we are talking about pork!