[Q] could the specific rifle be bought during the ban?

[worker]

[Q] [Miami] could the specific rifle be bought during the ban?

http://www.miamiherald.com/457/story/239248.html

In the recent unfortunate incident in Miami,
a person with a criminal history was able
to obtain, using fake IDs, an AK and kill a police officer
with it (and wounded 3 others)

The above article in Miami Herald is trying to make a reader
to believe that the given criminal whould have not been able to obtain this type of firearm during the 1994-04 assault weapons ban.

Jack Dolan (the reporter for this article), does not appear
to be using even precise enough terms to effectively
explain what exactly LaBeet was using.

Therefore, what I want to ask here -is why Jack Dolan
(via a quote and the tone of the article)
is insisting that this is the case?

Timoney, a longtime advocate of tighter gun control, blames the 2004 expiration of the federal ban on assault weapons for the escalation of firepower on Miami's streets.

I think it is actually good that the Police would be armed
with enough firepower to defend against any criminals.
I just cannot figure out what's the correlation between
the expiration of the ban and this incident.

In my view, it is this specific fact
(that was not acted on for the last 5 years by
Broward authorities) that
lead to this :

At the time, LaBeet had a 2002 arrest warrant pending in Broward, where he was charged with aggravated battery with a firearm and aggravated assault with a firearm.

 

[rosco22]

Ya think Plat and Madux , North Hollywood would have shed some light !!!! EVERY CAR gets a RIFLE ................762x51mm would be the proper choice @!!!!

Sounds like Mr. LaBeet should have been in the joint !!!

We on the out side will NEVER know what happened . It seems strange that 4 cops get hit ..........sounds like they need some more training .

 

[Heavy Metal Hero]

It seems strange that 4 cops get hit ..........sounds like they need some more training .

-The firefight distance had to be relatively short.
-7.62x39 can easily travel through many common objects (cars, walls, etc.).
-A rifle is a lot easier to shoot accurately.

I would say their numbers did not make up for their lack of firepower this time. (See the North Hollywood Shootout)

Never bring a handgun to a rifle fight.

 

[worker]

-The firefight distance had to be relatively short.

It appears that at least the woman office injured was
more than 100 feet away

The doctor who operated on seriously injured Miami-Dade police Officer Jody Wright -- who was about 200 feet from LaBeet when he fired at her -- described the grapefruit-size bullet wound on her right leg as the type ``you would see in a war.''

There is also available a detailed tactical description of the
incident

http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/labeet/index.html

I cannot figure out however from the above, at what position he fired at the women officer such that there was a 200 feet distance. It had to be between steps 11 and 13
but that distance appears to be may be max 50 feet (it can be seen during the replay)

It is difficult for me to immagine what those police
guys go through. It must have been horrible.
They probably did not expect such a violent attack
from the guy.

 

[Robert Hairless]

In the recent unfortunate incident in Miami,
a person with a criminal history was able
to obtain, using fake IDs, an AK and kill a police officer
with it (and wounded 3 others)

The above article in Miami Herald is trying to make a reader
to believe that the given criminal whould have not been able to obtain this type of firearm during the 1994-04 assault weapons ban.

If by "criminal history" what the article means is that the person was a felon, he violated the same law today that was in existence between 1994 and the expiration of the so-called "assault weapons ban." Felons were not legally permitted to have firearms then and they are not legally permitted to have firearms now.

If the person used a fake ID to obtain a firearm he violated the same law today that was in existence then.

If the person used a semi-automatic AK-47, they were available legally during the term of the so-called "assault weapons ban" and are available legally today.

If the person used a fully-automatic AK-47, they are no more or less legal today than they were then.

The expiration of the so-called "assault weapons ban" affected this case not at all, except in the minds of people who have little or no idea how to think. We call such people "journalists" and they occupy a special place in the United States because the First Amendment gives their statements exceptional protection while enabling them to be exceptionally ill-informed and untruthful.

Journalism is a great profession with its roots, as journalism is practiced today, in those itinerant charlatans who peddled snake oil and other nostrums from town to town. Who but a simpleton and the American public would believe a journalist or want its child left alone with one.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

It appears that at least the woman office injured was
more than 100 feet away

That is no big deal for a rifle, even an AK. Thats not even that challenging of a pistol shot.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Robert,

Journalism is a great profession with its roots, as journalism is practiced today, in those itinerant charlatans who peddled snake oil and other nostrums from town to town. Who but a simpleton and the American public would believe a journalist or want its child left alone with one.

With all due respect sir, the roots are more in the so called "penny dreadfuls" of the 19th century. You know, the ones that made cold blooded killers like Billy the Kid and the Dalton brothers folk heroes in the cities. That sort also made the "town tamers" that demanded ordinances banning firearms effective law enforcement even though the truth was just a bit different.

Selena

 

[Heavy Metal Hero]

100...even 200 feet is a short distance. I constantly shoot 300 ft with my AK and have no trouble hitting a 12" circle, let alone a human sized object.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

How about the not-so-obvious "fake ID" - - It had to be a stolen ID so that when the NICS check would have been done, it would come up in reference to an actual person with a clean record.

If the Second Amendment were to be honored, these police officers would not need "permission" to obtain and carry sufficient firepower. And, that firepower should be nothing less than 7.62 x 51mm (.308 Winchester), it shouldn't be locked up in the trunk, it shouldn't be shackled in any fashion.

It sure seems strange that an officer of the law in Florida should have to go through more hoops to be properly armed than I do here in Oklahoma as nothing more than merely one of the people.

Woody

God gave us guns for a reason. It wasn't so we could lament the lack of them when we need them. B.E. Wood

 

[another okie]

Some imported AKs during the ban had to have the magwells cut to 10 rounds if they had other "bad" features, but obviously there were plenty of used ones available with full magwells.

I often show people my Bushmaster AR and explain that it was purchased legally from a licensed dealer during the assault weapons ban.

 

[Walter]

This quote really ticked me off...

Timoney, a longtime advocate of tighter gun control, blames the 2004 expiration of the federal ban on assault weapons for the escalation of firepower on Miami's streets.

"This is really a failure of leadership at the national level. We are absolutely going in the wrong direction here," Timoney said. "The whole thing is a friggin' disgrace."

See http://www.star-telegram.com/national_news/story/237067.html
for the whole article.

I think Timoney's time as Police Chief of Miami should be about over.
Instead of finding new ways to stop violent crime in Miami, he just wants
to blame it all on the Federal government.

HE is a "friggin' disgrace"!:banghead:

Walter

 

[BlisteringSilence]

If the Second Amendment were to be honored, these police officers would not need "permission" to obtain and carry sufficient firepower. And, that firepower should be nothing less than 7.62 x 51mm (.308 Winchester), it shouldn't be locked up in the trunk, it shouldn't be shackled in any fashion.

Ummm.... a couple of problems with that....

First off, .308 is a big round. A little too big for shooting on the streets of Miami, or really any other city. We talk here all the time about the problems inherent in overpenetration. A .308 that hits its intended target is still more than capable of killing the next person it comes in contact with... another 100 feet downrange. Remember, you're in the city streets.

Second, you lock up EVERYTHING in a police car. Mainly because you don't lock the doors. The shotguns that we have in our patrol cars are "shackled" in place. They're on an electronic 8 second switch with a hidden release button.

Not to mention, you keep it in the trunk because there's just not that much room in our cars. Especially now that we've gone to chargers from cvpi's. There's barely enough room for a ridealong right now. If I were to try to move the AR from the trunk into the passenger compartment, I'd be in a hell of a mess. There's just nowhere for me to put it where I can get to it if I need to in a hurry. Getting the shotgun out is enough of a problem as it is.

 

[Robert Hairless]

Officers Wife:

With all due respect sir, the roots are more in the so called "penny dreadfuls" of the 19th century. You know, the ones that made cold blooded killers like Billy the Kid and the Dalton brothers folk heroes in the cities. That sort also made the "town tamers" that demanded ordinances banning firearms effective law enforcement even though the truth was just a bit different.

Nice insight indeed. But how about a compromise that blends yours with mine? Today's scribblers do indeed sensationalize and pander. In addition, though, they are merchandising according to a fairly well-defined marketing strategy, selling not only a political agenda that promises a balm for all fears but also candidates that profit them more or less directly.

Notice that these journalists of today share much the same knowledge and much the same ignorance. One would think that they would do basic fact checking but, like Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, they all do not know the same things. They're apparently getting their lines from something like a telemarketing script.

One thing I forgot to say in my previous message is that laws against assault, battery, and murder did not expire in 2004 with the so-called "assault weapons ban." It could be that the journalist believes that it's really, really bad to murder people with an AK-47 but much, much better to do use some other instrument. Those people's heads are screwed on so badly that they should simply not be given any special protection from the Constitution.

While they argue that the Second Amendment was a mistake, then or now, it becomes increasingly evident that the First Amendment protection of Freedom of the Press was even more of a blunder and much more harmful. Physical injuries are often treatable and even death is finite. Mental and spiritual corrosion, however, often go undiagnosed unless they erupt in something like the Virginia Tech murders. They are more difficult to cure, leave lasting damage, are transmitted to subsequent generations, and corrupt the body politic. The framers of the Constitution could not have anticipated today's multiplicity of information sources that make the press in general obsolete and unnecessary. It's past time to drive those rascals out.

 

[Regolith]

They're on an electronic 8 second switch with a hidden release button.

Uh, so what if you need it, like, RIGHT NOW? 8 seconds can be a long time when your being shot at...

They might as well put trigger locks on your sidearms

 

[BlisteringSilence]

Uh, so what if you need it, like, RIGHT NOW? 8 seconds can be a long time when your being shot at...

They might as well put trigger locks on your sidearms

You hit the switch, and you have 8 seconds to remove it.

 

[Regolith]

You hit the switch, and you have 8 seconds to remove it.

Oh, yeah, that's a bit different. The way you had written it before made it sound like you had to WAIT 8 seconds for it to be unshackled.

 

[Cannonball888]

The way you had written it before made it sound like you had to WAIT 8 seconds for it to be unshackled.

That's what I thought too. Kinda like the purpose for the 3-day waiting period for handgun purchases

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

If I were to try to move the AR from the trunk into the passenger compartment, I'd be in a hell of a mess.

There are some really good overhead mounts.

Dead on with the .308. A bad shot with that will go right through someones house.

As for the ban, let's see what goodies I have from that time period that fit into the medias catch all "assault rifle"

DPMS Panther 16"
SAR-1
SKS
CETME
FAL

Funny, considering the post ban Saiga and GP WASR-10 that I own are functionally identical to that ban era SAR-1.

Education: We have it, and need to get it to them.

 

[joab]

Some imported AKs during the ban had to have the magwells cut to 10 rounds if they had other "bad" features, but obviously there were plenty of used ones available with full magwells.

I bought my SAR 1 AK three days before the ban ended, simply to prove I could incase this subject ever came up

The only difference between pre and post ban was that I had no bayo lug, (that I didn't want anyway), and my folding wire stock was welded in the open position.
It came with a 40 rd mag and one 5 round mag and I bought a few more 30 round and twenty round mags at the time of purchase

 

[benEzra]

Here are the differences between a ban-era and postban AK. This is a 2002 model, made, imported, and sold during the ban.

The people saying that AK's were banned 1994-2004 and were "legalized" in Sept. 2004 are either totally misinformed, or lying through their teeth.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Worried Over The .308?

It's the same diameter as the 7.62 x 39MM used in the AK. Sure; there is more powder behind it in the 7.62 x 51MM/.308 Winchester, but then there are hollow point bullets, and short barreled arms such as the Springfield SOCOM available to the police. And, then there is aiming, training, and being sure of your target and stuff like that...

I'm cool with the 8 second timer thingie so long as you can reach the switch in what ever situation you find yourself in, so long as it will work when the cruiser's battery is all shot up and not working, so long as you can operate it and remove the arm with one hand, so long as you can deselect the release mechanism when heading into any situation where you know you'll need to grab and run and not take your eyes or concentration off the threat, so long as you add a foolproof "Oh, S***!" voice command release feature, etc, etc...

I remain unconvinced that the .308 is a bad round for police/defensive/military/hunting use due to it being "too powerful". There is underpowered and then there is sufficient and above power. The .308 is not in the former category as is the .223/5.56MM.

That's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it.

Woody


If you want security, buy a gun. If you want longevity, learn how to use it. If you want freedom, carry it. There is nothing worth more than freedom you win for yourself. There is nothing more valuable to that end than the tools of the right that make it possible. B.E.Wood

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

It's the same diameter as the 7.62 x 39MM used in the AK

Technically, no. The two rounds aren't the same diameter. .308 vs .311. But, that's most irrelevant. The .308 is also a much heavier bullet traveling at a higher velocity. Heavier and faster = more energy.

Good hunting round? Yes. Good military application round? Yes. Good police sniping round? Yes. Good home defense round? Only if you live out in the country. Good police response round? Uh... You did mention the 7.62x39....

There's no real need for the police to use a .308 as a cruiser standard weapon. A thug wearing nothing protective or a normal concealed type vest will go down to either the .308 or the 7.62x39mm. A thug wearing a SAPI plate will stop both rounds. .308 will be more accurate after 150 yards, but should police other than dedicated sharpshooters be making those engagements?

Don't get me wrong, I love the .308 for it's uses, but don't think we should be mustering the cannons for a job more suited to lighter arms.

*edit* spelling

 

[MisterPX]

223/556 patrol carbine would also be better for all officers to use, since officers come in all shapes and sizes.