Q ..... for LEO in PA.

[RUBZERK]

OK, lets say somebody is speeding & you pull them over.
You walk up to the window & ask for lisence, reg & proof if Insurance, The driver looks at you & says "I have to get it out of my glovebox But I have a loaded firearm in there because i have a permit to carry"

Being that the driver does have a permit & it is in his wallet on his person. Can the driver be arrested and charged with anything because the weapon is not on his person ???

 

[SMMAssociates]

Here in OH, locked in the glovebox is one of the "required" places a licensee can have a concealed firearm. If it's on your belt it must be "in plain sight"....

(Yech....)

Can't say for sure for PA, but you should be OK.

Packing.org has links to the relevant PA law.

Regards,

 

[SJG26]

A more proper response is....................

"Officer---my DL and concealed weapons permit are in my wallet----------how do you want me to proceed?" (my experience at least)
Both in my wallet, rear right pocket- typically just below my IWB carry of the moment.
That leads into the P.O. asking - where is your weapon and avoids any uneasy moments.

 

[RUBZERK]

I just need to know if it is illegal to have your weapon the the glovebox & not on your person.

 

[P95Carry]

Rubzerk - Steve in PA can probably answer this unequivocally but for me - it matters not where the piece is.

In my case it is on my person, holstered as usual but with a CCW it is legal to have a loaded handgun in your vehicle. I know of no stipulation as to its location within vehicle or on person.

 

[Steve in PA]

No, nothing to be arrested and/or charged with as long as you have a valid permit to carry.

§ 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

 

[P95Carry]

A small and probably insignificant rider to all this (and thx a lot Steve for clarification - glad you dropped in) - nothing to do with handguns but - re hunting licence etc - it is verboten to carry your hunting rifle in the vehicle loaded - best as I remember.

As I say - incidental to this prime discussion.

 

[RUBZERK]

Thanks steve.


Is it illegal to have a loaded gun in your car while you are working ?
Car parked in the parking lot.

 

[Steve in PA]

I'm from the government, I'm here to help

 

[RUBZERK]

steve

Is there a list of places that are off limits to carry ?

There are a few places i dont carry such as philly, work, banks, parks, hospitals & local Gov buildings.

where else is off limits ? IN PA

 

[RevDisk]

There are a few places i dont carry such as philly, work, banks, parks, hospitals & local Gov buildings.

where else is off limits ? IN PA

- As far as I know, it is ok to CCW in Philly. Under the PA Uniform Firearms Act, as far as I recall, local cities cannot pass gun bans. CCW applies equally in every county in PA. That said, not all Philly police officers know this. I recommend having a copy of the PA Uniform Firearms Act handy if you intend to CCW near Philly. Most police officers will leave you alone after you show them a copy of the law. If they do not, politely ask them to call their supervisor. That works in 99% of the time.

Another FYI, if you bought a pistol in PA, you're supposed to be given a copy of the Uniform Firearms Act. If I remember correctly, it's one of the questions on the illegal form the PA State Police requires for the purchase of any handgun. Did ya read the fine print before ya signed?

If not, let me know. I think I can dig up an electronic copy for you.


- Carrying at work is dependent on where you work. If it's for a civvie corporation, it's up to the corporation. Check your employee handbook.


- Banks, I'd have to check, but I think CCW is ok. If you print, they can ask you to leave. Showing them your CCW permit and apologizing would probably fix the situation.


- State and local parks are ok to CCW. See the PA Constitution for more details. PA Constitution, Article I, Section 21, "Right to Bear Arms".

"The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."

Personally, I think this is better worded than the Bill of Rights version.

It's the National's you gotta worry about. Erm, I'm embarassed, but I forget which bans CCW. National Forests, or National Parks.

- Hospitals, again. It's at the hospital's discretion. Most do ban CCW. But the worst they can do is kick you off the property.

- Courtrooms are verbotim for CCW. Not courthouse, mind you, courtroom. There was a recent ruling on this that clarified the law. I believe the court folks are also supposed to provide you with safe storage of your firearms if you need to use the court room, but I need to re-read the ruling. If you want a copy of this ruling, I can look it up for ya. Most court houses are not aware of this ruling, so be sure to bring a copy of the ruling and notify the security folks.

Aside from courtrooms, I'm not sure about CCW'ing inside state and local govt buildings. Even if it's legal, expect a lot of hassle from the security folks. More trouble than it's worth. Federal property (like the post office) is verbotim, obviously. Schools too.

Is it illegal to have a loaded gun in your car while you are working ?
Car parked in the parking lot.

Depends. If you work on federal property, a school or another officially verbotim place, it's illegal.

If you work at a private company, it's at the company's discretion. Worst they can do is fire you or kick you off the property. It's not illegal.

 

[RevDisk]

A small and probably insignificant rider to all this (and thx a lot Steve for clarification - glad you dropped in) - nothing to do with handguns but - re hunting licence etc - it is verboten to carry your hunting rifle in the vehicle loaded - best as I remember.

Geesh, maybe it's because I've been up all night and it's 6am, but I can't remember if it's legal to have a loaded obviously non-hunting rifle or shotgun in the car. You happen know the current law on it?

 

[rms/pa]

the official wording is a "license to carry firearms"
in PA.
if you are present with your license its ok loaded , in the car,in a scabbard on your bike, or hanging from your patotie.
keep in mind the difference between legal and what the cops will put up with.
legal keeps the judge happy.
if the nice policeman is upset you will take a ride.

rms/pa

 

[shermacman]

Sheesh,
You guys just need to read the Bill of Rights, Second Amendment, of the Constitution. All the answers to your questions are right there in plain view.

 

[RevDisk]

You guys just need to read the Bill of Rights, Second Amendment, of the Constitution. All the answers to your questions are right there in plain view.

The PA Constitution's version is better.

Article I, Section 21, "Right to Bear Arms".

"The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."


Shermacman, Rubzerk was posting to ask questions about CCW'ing. Rather good questions. The 2A doesn't answer all the questions brought up in this thread. Are you being sarcastic or attempting to be witty?

 

[RUBZERK]

Rev, I read all the print but can you still post it so i can print it ?

 

[geekWithA.45]

PA has the fewest place restrictions of states that have such restrictions on permit holders.

From the state level:

The only absolute restriction is courtrooms and judges chambers, and the facility MUST offer lockers to secure your sidearms.

There are "soft" restrictions that are unclear due to conflicting statutes that have not been resolved in court, no one's really interested in being the test case:

-Schools K-12. There's a "lawful purpose" escape clause that hasn't been tested as to whether that extends to permit holders

-State Parks: It's untested whether the uniform firearm act, which is the newer law, trumps the older statutes concerning firearms in parks. The position of the park service is that if you are found to be armed, you will be asked to leave. If you refuse, you'll be arrested for trespass.

The usual federal level restrictions apply:

-Secure areas of airports
-Federal facilities and parks
-etc.



It is surprisingly common to hear how many folks think it's unlawful to carry in Philly.

There's a couple of reasons for this.

The first is that PHL is outright hostile to LTCF holders.

The next is that before pre-emption, PHL used to make it's own rules, and so a lot of folks information is 10-15 years out of date.

The third is that people don't read the statutes closely enough. There are special clauses concerning OPEN carry in PHL, which is otherwise lawful on foot throughout the state. In PHL, OPEN carry is only lawful if you've got an LTCF, in which case it'd make sense to conceal.

 

[RUBZERK]

Does it matter that I live across the strret from a school ?

 

[P95Carry]

Chris - re the rifle in vehicle deal - I'd like to hear Steve's take on that.

My mention was actually what I remember re hunting season and being stopped by a PGC Ranger - at which point a loaded rifle is IIRC regarded in a poor light - read potential prosecution.

However - hunting aspects aside, I have always thought any rifle loaded in vehicle was a no-no. Steve? How do you guys see this.?

 

[geekWithA.45]

>>Does it matter that I live across the strret from a school

No. The 100/1000 yard type of stuff isn't part of PA law, and has been pretty reliably struck down in courts in any event.

Just don't wander onto the schoolgrounds armed, say, when walking your dog.

 

[MikeIsaj]

-Schools K-12. There's a "lawful purpose" escape clause that hasn't been tested as to whether that extends to permit holders

Glad someone else has read that part. I've had numerous discussions of this with various lawyers, LEO and an ADA. One incident cited was a lawful carry to pick up a child after school. School official went code red over the sight of a gun and went code "super red" when police refused to arrest or cite. The police position was, "no law broken, nothing to cite." School district went to the DA who agreed with the Police. This was in the City of Philadelphia.

Best advice is learn the law by reading the law and discussing it with knowledgeable people wiht no agenda. There's lot's of mythology and assumptions out there.

Also important to consider where in the code the particular law is. The school exclusion is not under the firearms section, it's in a seperate section that expands the definition of weapons specific to school property and bans them all.

Another thought to remember is that Pa. law is exclusionary law. It specifies what you are not allowed to do. The assumption is that if it is not specifically forbidden, it is allowed. With that in mind, is open carry allowed?

 

[P95Carry]

With that in mind, is open carry allowed?

IIRC when this was discussed before, the consensus was - yes it is - but only because not made illegal. Being pedantic, let's not say ''allowed'' but rather, ''not disallowed''!

Beyond that of course is all the ''is it worth it'' depending on where you live etc. Rural and semi rural - probably not too much problem but urban and city almost certainly a bad idea!!

 

[kirkcdl]

RevDisk,as far as Post Offices go,the commonly posted sign starts by saying"Except as provided in subsection C".They don't or won't show that subsection,but it says there are 3 exceptions to the No gun policy.Number 1 is active duty military whose duty requires them to be armed.Number 2 is LEO whose duty or department requires them to be armed.Number 3 is "anyone else conducting lawful business".I work for the P.O. and my Postmaster and I both read this and we agreed that it basically means that unless you're entering the property with the intent of commiting a crime,and as long as you're properly licensed to carry,you're okay.The reason this discussion got started in the first place was a question I had regarding picking up my PO Box mail on my day off.Perhaps some states might attempt to restrict carry at the PO,but I think any reasonably competent attorney could easily bring up the issue of said states jurisdiction(or rather lack of)over Federal Property.If you go to Google-rec.guns,there is a long-standing post by a Federally practicing attorney on the subject of Post Office carry.Although all in all,I really wouldn't want to be a test case...

 

[SMMAssociates]

Perhaps some states might attempt to restrict carry at the PO,but I think any reasonably competent attorney could easily bring up the issue of said states jurisdiction(or rather lack of)over Federal Property.If you go to Google-rec.guns,there is a long-standing post by a Federally practicing attorney on the subject of Post Office carry.Although all in all,I really wouldn't want to be a test case...

A hair off topic, but OH's CHL law specifically puts Post Offices on the CPZ list....

Like so many other things in it, the Courts will have to sort this one out.

I rather prefer visiting PA lately.

Elsewhere on this thread was the mention that carrying in the non-sterile areas of airports is OK. It's been a while, but I think the warning signs for those (like Baggage Claim) are invalid at PIT - nearly invisible, and in a clutter of other signs.

Regards,

 

[geekWithA.45]

Mikeisaj:

Can you give a citation the incident where the PHL cops and DA refused to arrest and charge an LTCF holder picking up their kids from school?

Normally, the PHL cops and DA are pretty hostile to LTCF holders, and that sounds like a good case to cite.