Q's about jacketless ammo/lead cast ammo...

[martianwarrior]

i'm new to the THR forums and new to the world of guns in general. i've read the lengthy discussion on shooting lead cast bullets through glocks (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=172607) and that is what my concern is. i'm planning on casting my own .45 acp for a glock 30 which i will more than likely conceal and carry.

first... i'm confused about what can/should be done with the lead bullet, post casting. do these bullets require a jacket? why/why not?

second... as i've said, i plan on using my lead cast bullets for defensive purposes and i was wondering if 200 grain or 230 grain would be better shooting out of the shorter barrel. i was also wondering what bullet style might be ideal; round nose, hollow point, flat nose etc.

any ideas or suggestions are welcome... just note that i'm already set on shooting lead cast bullets through my glock

 

[ljnowell]

I have experience shooting lead bullets out of a glock barrel. I have shot cast lead out of my g21 for awhile. I have a Lone Wolf barrel, but still shoot lead out of my stock one. There are a couple things to keep in mind when using lead on a glock barrel.
#1 You do not want to hotrod the load. You are looking for function and accuracy, not power.
#2 Relates to #1. You have to have enough pressure to seal the bullet to the bore. I have found that with a polygonal rifled barrel you do not need as much pressure to accomplish this. The problem comes when you go much past this point. There is a defined window I have found on my g21. I generally use either bullseye or 700x for cast loads out of my 45acps. Which either powder if I keep my loads between 750-850fps no problems at all. Drop below it or above it and I get pretty decent leading. In fact, if I keep it in that sweet spot with my loads I can shoot several hundred and still not have enough leading to concern anyone. Yes, though, it will lead some, and more than a standard barrel, IMO.

Everything I said above is ONLY SAFE IN MY GUN. If you choose to do so with your glock, you do so at your own risk with no responsibility or liability on my part or that of THR.ORG or its moderators.

Edit: Sorry I forgot to address your other questions. I have shot LRN, SWC, and RNFP in 200gr, and 230gr LRN. The weight of the bullet thus far hasnt had a bearing on the leading. For defensive purposes I think I would use a flat front bullet in the heaviest weight i could, as velocity is your limiting factor anyway. If you cant go over 850fps, you may as well use the heavier bullet. The SWC is a great defensive bullet design, it cuts a nice hole.

 

[ants]

Welcome to the THR Forum!

Get yourself a reloading book and read it, friend.

From your questions I can tell than you are starting at ground zero in reloading. Go get a book and read it. 90% of your answers will be at your fingertips. Then you can always come back here to THR for clarifications and other opinions.

Bullet manufacturers Hornady, Speer, Sierra and Nosler make good books.
Equipment manufacturers Lyman and Lee make good books.
ABC's of Reloading is a book written independently of any manufacturer.

 

[mongoose33]

I agree with Ants--you're way too early in this process to be thinking about casting.

As he said, start reading. Then read some more. And more. Get the ABCs of Reloading book--it's excellent for explaining the process. Get a couple of reloading manuals, and understand what's in them.

My advice to you--after you've done that reading, and after you've acquired reloading equipment--is to start by reloading jacketed bullets. Once you can produce good, reliable-performing rounds that way, with variations of powder, charge, and with attention paid to OAL (overall length of cartridge), then consider lead bullets.

Lead presents its own set of problems as opposed to jacketed bullets. Included are the issues of lube and leading of barrel.

But you can't load Lead unless you know how to load, and the best way to start (IMO) is to reduce variables until you master the process.

Good luck!

 

[rcmodel]

I agree with the others that you need to learn to walk before learning to fly.

Start out with jacketed or plated bullets in your Glock.

If you are dead set in loading lead bullets, they need to be cast hard.
Pure Linotype is not too hard for Glock polygon rifling.

Softer bullets will strip in the Glock non-rifling and cause leading, which can cause pressures to quickly rise, which can result in a series of unfortunate events.

It is also critical that you maintain a good gun cleaning schedule to keep leading and chamber fouling at bay. Take a cleaning rod & bore brush to the range with you and clean the chamber & bore every 50 - 100 rounds or so.

Suggest you pick up a copy of the Lyman #49 reloading manual and read it several times.
It covers bullet casting, sizing, and lubrication, as well as all other aspects of making your own bullets.

rc

 

[ljnowell]

I agree with the others that you need to learn to walk before learning to fly.

Start out with jacketed or plated bullets in your Glock.

If you are dead set in loading lead bullets, they need to be cast hard.
Pure Linotype is not too hard for Glock polygon rifling.

Softer bullets will strip in the Glock non-rifling and cause leading, which can cause pressures to quickly rise, which can result in a series of unfortunate events.

It is also critical that you maintain a good gun cleaning schedule to keep leading and chamber fouling at bay. Take a cleaning rod & bore brush to the range with you and clean the chamber & bore every 50 - 100 rounds or so.

Suggest you pick up a copy of the Lyman #49 reloading manual and read it several times.
It covers bullet casting, sizing, and lubrication, as well as all other aspects of making your own bullets.

rc

Im not sure that you would need super hard bullets exactly. Mine are between 12 and 18 depending in the bullet I am loading. In my experiences how fast I pushed them made more of a difference than the bullet hardness, though it should be noted that I have never loaded anything under a brinnel 12 in my glock.

 

[rcmodel]

I started out operating under the assumption that a very hard bullet would hold the polygon rifling and not strip out as easy as a softer bullet. They act more like a jacketed bullet then a lead bullet.

Quite frankly, I can't say for sure how softer bullets would or would not work, as I have been shooting Linotype bullets in my Glock 23 for going on 15 years with no leading or other problems.

Just never had a good reason to try softer bullets.

BTW: Your 18 BHN is pretty hard. Just not quite as hard as Linotype's BHN 22.

rc

 

[ljnowell]

I started out operating under the assumption that a very hard bullet would hold the polygon rifling and not strip out as easy as a softer bullet. They act more like a jacketed bullet then a lead bullet.

Quite frankly, I can't say for sure how softer bullets would or would not work, as I have been shooting Linotype bullets in my Glock 23 for going on 15 years with no leading or other problems.

Just never had a good reason to try softer bullets.

BTW: Your 18 BHN is pretty hard. Just not quite as hard as Linotype's BHN 22.

rc

Yep, I agree that 18 is a pretty hard lead, but i have shot as low as 12 in it. Either way, it surely isnt impossible like many of the naysayers will have someone believe. I remember when I bought my first glock and was talking to an uncle that I shot with, when Imentioned not being able to shoot lead he was like ***? He had been shooting lead out of his .40s and .45 glocks for as long as he had them.

 

[rfwobbly]

Whao, Friend.

second... as i've said, i plan on using my lead cast bullets for defensive purposes and i was wondering if 200 grain or 230 grain would be better shooting out of the shorter barrel. i was also wondering what bullet style might be ideal; round nose, hollow point, flat nose etc.

Oh, son, no! Let me advise you to get some factory-made self defense loads, something law enforcement has tested and used. Speer Gold Dots, Hornady Critical Defense, Federal Hydra-Shok, or some such similar. You need something that's guaranteed to fire, guaranteed to feed, something that has some real knock down power. You don't ever want to trust your life to low power target loads.

Besides, if you're new to handguns and new to reloading you'll quickly see that for the first year your reloads will be doing good to fire and hit the target 90% of the time. Mastering a big handgun takes time. And mastering reloading at the same time... well, let's just say that you've got your work cut out for you!!

Don't get me wrong, I want to encourage you in the sport and in reloading. I'm glad you've set your sights high. Just please take my advice for now. In a year when your knowledge is doubled or tripled you'll look back and say, "Wow, what the heck was I thinking?"

 

[martianwarrior]

wow, you guys are great.

trust me, i know that my gun and reloading knowledge is weak. i can shoot well, but that's about it haha. that is why i came to THR. i read the thread i linked to about lead through glocks and i could tell this forum is littered with folks who know a lot.

i'm pretty much all on my own. i'm young and don't have anyone around to teach me anything. i just had to ask my dumb questions to make sure i get on the right track.

thanks for all the suggestions and ideas. i really really appreciate it!