QUALITY Derringer

[bojangles5169]

I'm looking. I really have my eye on the American M1 in .45LC/410 polished and scrolled - lots of bucks for this poor boy but I saved 10 years for a Rolex when I could have afforded a Timex right away. Sorry, I lost the thread I was reading last night on this subject but some were discussing the other brand that looks almost identical - no wonder - the manufacturer was working in Saunder's factory while Mr Saunders was dying with cancer in the Mayo clinic in '93 - he then left and started his own company. I'm not bad mouthing him but seems to me like he did take advantage of "Lady Derringer". I have a TX CCL and carry my Seecamp daily. Seems to me that looking down the bore of a 410 compared to my .32 would increase the "pucker factor" a little. I'm 64 years old and have owned and loved guns and Case knives all my life - both big and small bore. In my opinion, a carry gun is a belly gun and there's little use for discussion on accuracy - if you're far enough away to have to aim you could have run and that's what you should do.
If anyone has an opinion on the best quality big bore derringer or any other related experiences I would sure be interested.
[email protected]

 

[1 old 0311]

Maybe Bond?

 

[MikeJackmin]

I have an American Arms in .45acp. BE VERY CAREFUL when loading these things - if you close the action when the hammer is down, you will be shoving one of the primers against the extended firing pin! The hammer MUST be at half-cock when the action is closed.

Personally, I think this is a symptom of a ridiculous design. Can't they use a floating firing pin, or just lock the action shut when the hammer is down?

The workmanship on mine is OK, but it is no masterpiece - the bore was drilled visibly off-center, for example - but I can't say I've seen any other brands which are better made. It is very solid and unlikely to ever break in this lifetime.

As I recall, at 3 yards, the first barrel will print about two feet higher than the second. I believe this is because of the difference in recoil, as the higher barrel exerts a greater twisting force. The trigger pull is off the scale, and, as an added bonus, the safety will disengage itself whenever the hammer spur is bumped. A Kel-Tec 3-AT is just as easy to carry and far, far better for defensive use.

It is fun, though, I must admit. It's like playing with cheap firecrackers when you are a kid - loud noises, surprises, and the ever-present risk of blowing off a finger or two...

 

[RyanM]

I would strongly recommend not getting a .410 one. You'd probably only get about 800-850 fps on buckshot out of that. 5 pellets of 000 is the most powerful commercial load available. According to MacPherson's equations, each pellet would only crush a 0.235" wide hole, due to their shape. Combined, this gives an effective frontal area equivalent to a 0.576" hole. A .45 caliber hollowpoint would do much better than that.

Your best bet in derringers would probably be to get a double action American Derringer in .40 S&W. http://www.amderringer.com/das.html A 3.3" barrel will give you ballistics similar to a Kahr K40 or Glock 27. .40 S&W is a high pressure cartridge, so it would lose a lot less through the shorter barrel than a low-pressure .410 shotshell or .45 LC.

That's what I would buy if I were in the market for a derringer. I decided to go the NAA Mini route instead, though.

 

[MikeJackmin]

I see they are planning on offering a copy of the Simmerling. I never handled one, but I understand they are a manually-operated DA auto - you have to cycle the slide for each shot. Interesting little gun.

 

[MikeJackmin]

More info here:

http://www.mouseguns.com/

 

[VA27]

I have one of each. My American Derringer is in 45/410. As has been said, be extra careful when loading. Make SURE that the hammer is on half-cock and/or the automatic safety is engaged!

The AD is slightly more compact than the Bond Arms, and hides in a jeans front pocket a little easier.

The trigger pull is not that hard, when you figure out how it works. You have to pull the trigger DOWN and back. If you pull straight back, it's a real grunter, but if you pull down and back it's not too bad.

Accuracy is what you make of it. If you practice, COM hits with buckshot or slugs out to seven to ten yards are do-able.

Mine will keyhole with 45 Colt loads, but who really cares? They go to my point of aim.

My Bond Arms is in 40S&W. The Bond is only slightly heavier and bulkier than the AD and has a rebounding hammer that takes some of the worry out of reloading, but it's still wise to be careful during the reload.

You can also get other caliber barrels for the Bond, without having to buy a different gun. I have a set of 45/410 barrels on order for the Bond and several other calibers are available.

Recoil? Yeah, but not as much as one of those 10oz 357 Maggies with heavy loads. I can actually shoot either of the derringers more times with less pain than that or a heavy load 44 Mag Mountain Gun.

One last thing, I'd keep the Seecamp. I have mine with me even when I have one of the derringers. After you get used to the derringer, shooting the Seecamp will be like shooting a 22! (Looked at the .380 Seecamp? I sure would like one of those!)

Bob

 

[M2 Carbine]

I've got a Bond Arms 45ACP Derringer.
Very high quality.
Fairly expensive.
As accurate as the shooter is. Ten yards is no problem.
Changeable barrels.

A derringer is somewhat awkward to use and should be practiced with quite a bit. I loaded about 1,500 light loads just for practicing with the derringer.

I've tested 410 buck in a longer barrel than the 3 1/2 inch derringer and it is VERY disapointing. Almost any pistol bullet will go through a 2 inch board. The DEEPEST any 410 buckshot ball penetrated the boards was 1 inch. And that was from a 7 inch barrel, not a 3 1/2 inch barrel. The shells were 5 ball S&B 00 Buck.

Seems to me that looking down the bore of a 410 compared to my .32 would increase the "pucker factor" a little.

You bet.

 

[bojangles5169]

OK - you figured me out

I guess what I really was asking without wanting to do so is quality wise - which is better - the Bond or American? There have been some excellent points made by many responders that I would not have thought of & yes - I'm definately keeping the Seecamp. since custom grips aren't available for the Seecamp, I've talked my neighbor (Blue Mesa Custom Knives) into making me a set out of a block of Amboyna wood I bought. I picked up a NAA .22 Mag to use while my Seecamp is laid up - then I found a gunsmith to put a chrome polish on the little stainless NAA - I just believe a gun should look as good or better than it shoots. To me they should be a work of art to be respected in more ways than just the "bang" factor. I know I'm screwey that way - my child bride tells me all the time.
Many Thanks,
bojangles5169

 

[Old John]

Bond Arms for me

Hey Y'all,
I did the research before I bought a Bond Arms Texas Defender,
in .45 Colt/.410ga.
Yiup, it has a rebounding hammer. So, it is safer to use.
DSW has a Texas Defender in .45acp.
She's a shorty, but she can hit inside the 7 ring on a silhouette,
every time.
Yeah, the trigger guard helps control the weapon.
Dsw shoots mine as well.
We got them not from any need. We wanted them.

They are just a Hoot, to play with.
I drop mine in my pocket, when I walk down to the mailbox,
here at the house.
Mostly I carry my SP101, .357mag., though.
DSW mostly carries a litte Kel-tec P11.
Derringers are handy little things.
Bond Arms is prob'ly the heaviest 2-Shooter you c'n carry,
But, buy what you want too.I'm happy with mine.
Have fun.

 

[bojangles5169]

Well - Bond won out

Went to visit the little factory last Friday - had a nice visit and had some of the real important (to me) features explained. Stopped by my local dealer and ordered a Cowboy Defender - think I'll carry & shoot it a little & then have the engraver in Abilene do a real trick job for me if the carry & shoot work out.

Thanks to all previous posters for the good info!

bojangles5169

 

[Old John]

SAFEST.........Best

Well, you got the Safest, Probably Heaviest & Best.
Good Choice AFAIK.
I love Bond Texas Defenders. DSW does too

Not a better Derringer out there.
Have fun.

 

[gezzer]

S&W M36

 

[Babarsac]

Bond Arms 410

Yeah its a scary thing to look at it from the other end but I'm wondering how hard it would be to change the barrel to something with less kick.

Still not to bad for a handgun that cost me zip. Won it playing rock-paper-scissors on a marine base.

 

[VA27]

Buy a barrel in whatever caliber suits you (22LR?), get an allen wrench to fit the barrel screw. Take out the screw, take off the old barrel and install the new one. Put the screw back in and tighten it up. You're done!

 

[cloudcroft]

I'll post this for the record here and for posterity, for those who search this forum for info on the NAA Mini-Revolvers later on...


I used to be an advocate of the NAA Mini-Revolvers, but am not anymore.

The gun looks fine on the outside -- great, really, superb machining of such small parts -- but inside it's just the OPPOSITE: The machining "quality" is extremely poor. On top of that, the lockworks design is way too fragile...small, sloppily-fitted delicate parts just waiting to slip from position or break.

I had a mainspring break (it seemed to be made of WAY too brittle metal) and when I got a new one from NAA -- but no apologies, concern or explanation for the cyrstaline-looking (brittle) metal the mainsprings are made out of, or that their gun had shown itself to be an unreliable choice for carrying -- a week later the cylinder timing went off big-time and the gun pretty much locked up and was unusable.

I'm talking about a .22 Magnum model here (but I have owned their .22LR version, too).

In short, I will NEVER buy one of those NAAs ever again, nor would I recommend them for carrying whatsoever. They are NOT reliable or durable lockworks-wise.

As usually happens of course, I'm sure people will subsequently post here that their's IS reliable, they've put x-number of rounds thorugh it with no problems, etc.

Well, so did I...until it broke.

Consequently, my advice is NOT stake your life on it...or anyone else's you care about. If you do, Good Luck to you, because that will be a big factor using your NAA for SD purposes. If you play the lottery or enjoy visiting casinos, the NAAs will appleal to your nature.

But frankly, I don't want LUCK to play ANY part in the gun *I* am carrying.

-- John D.

P.S. I also am looking for a small carry gun (beside my Beretta 21-A Inox), something small but in .45ACP since I do not want to carry my full-size 1911, or pay big bucks for a Springfield V10 Compact. But it seems the Bond derringers are a bit large for a 2-shot gun...large enough to make one think that as big as it is, maybe getting something slightly larger -- like said Springfield V10, with lots more than 2 shots - may not be so bad after all.

 

[bojangles5169]

Yeah Cloudcroft - you sure want a reliable gun

I just happen to have the little NAA .22 Mag - just bought it - never have had the chance to shoot it yet - your news is disturbing. My daily CC is a Seecamp .32 in a hip pocket holster by Guru Dave - I never even know it's there - comfortable. Had a local custom knife maker make me a set of custom grips out of Amboyna wood - really pretty - I just hate the look of black rubber grips no matter how practical they are.

I did invest in the Bond Cowboy Defender with thoughts of CC for it and I have - back to the convertible front/back pocket holster by Guru Dave. It will tend to drag your britches down more than the Seecamp. I also have a Colt McCormick Officer's custom in hard chrome. I've tried CC with it in a Galco SOB holster which I would prefer but I'm 6'2" 160# with no butt and it was just too much weight - plus in summer it's difficult to conceal. Never tried an inside waist band and don't think I will - I just don't have the padding.

Best Regards, bojangles5169

 

[cloudcroft]

The NAA .22Mag. Mini-Revolver was the most comfortable gun I ever carried concealed...small but still grippable/shootable, smooth/rounded edges for the most part so it fit nicely in my jeans' small change pocket, and lightweight.

I often forgot it was even there is was so comfortable, and because of not being a hassle to carry, I ALWAYS carried it, making rule # 1 -- have a gun with/on you, not left in the car or at home -- easy to follow.

Consequently, I was very disappointed when I had to get rid of it because it lost the confidence I HAD in it to be my concealed carry gun.

You can't be doubting your carry gun.

Any percentage of doubt is too much.

-- John D.