Question About .357 Factory Loads

[bluto]

Please bear with me. I don't reload, I've done several searches, and there's something that's always puzzled me. So I'll ask what may be an ignorant question:

I've read some very informative threads about chronograph results for various factory ammunition loadings. But I've always wondered why there seems to be such a big gap from high end .38 spl. +P (maybe maxing out with remington golden saber +P's @ 270 ft./lbs) and low end .357 magnum loadings (starting out @ around 471 ft./lbs.).

I shoot mainly auto's (9mm, .40, and .45). Most loads are rated from 345 ft./lbs to around 410 ft./lbs. give or take. And ther are tons of factory defensive loads built around those numbers. But I like my S&W 586-7 and my Python as well. Shooting full power .357 loads seems a bit much for a defensive load (at least for me) but the very controllable .38 spl. +P's through the same guns are kind of anemic.

Why doesn't someone (factory load) download a .357 to produce power in the 9mm to .45 range? Like 370 ft./lbs to 410 ft./lbs.? Or load up a .38 spl.? In a 4" bbl S&W it would seem like a great load. Better ballistics than a .38+P - less muzzle blast, recoil and more controllability than a full power .357 round? Seems like they've got everything else out there.

What am I missing here?

bluto

 

[akodo]

While there is a big difference between 38 +p and 357 medium velocity, I think it is because 38 +p you don't want to get much hotter going through 38 special only frames, and ammo companies know that people can and will fire 38 +p through all but the oldest 38. On the flip side, someone who picks up a 357, it is assumed they know what they are getting into and will be able to handle 357 medium velocity loads, so 357 low velocity wouldn't be a big seller, especially as 357s generally cost more than 38 special

 

[akodo]

also check out the winchester 110 grain load, I believe that is 410 ftlbs. It feels aweful nice to me

 

[JohnKSa]

The 110gr JHP loadings are probably close to what you're looking for.

 

[bluto]

Thanks for the replies and clarification. I'll check out the 110 gr. loadings. They sound like what I'm looking for.

 

[Run&Shoot]

Ditto on the 110 gr.

For some reason the 125 gr always seem to havesignificantly more blast and recoil than the 158 gr and especially the 110 gr. The 110 gr are pretty mild for a magnum. Also, try different brands. Many times the Blazer brand is much milder than Remington or Federal.

 

[bpisler]

Remington 357mag Golden sabers are a
mid range load.1225 fps from a 4"
barrel would also be a good choice.

Another choice would be the Speer
short barrel 357mag load.It's a 135
grain Gold dot loaded to 1000 fps
from a 2" barrel.

 

[Gary A]

Ditto on the Speer load. Very promising. About 300 ft-lbs from a 2 inch.

 

[nitesite]

It's my belief that the mid-velocity .357 loadings are more suited for shooting thru 2-1/8" thru 3" magnum revolvers. Shorter barrels and lighter weight make that a fairly smart choice.

If I am carrying a 4" or longer barrelled revolver, I choose to go with the real honkin' loads like the Federals and Remingtons that clock 1400+ fps. Why?

There is much anectotal evidence that mentions a shooter in a high-stress situation who never notices the blast or flash. This is especially true if the powder is flash-suppressed like todays premium personal defense ammunition is designed with.

I was a LEO during the days when everyone carried a .357 Magnum revolver. None of us involved in a shooting were suddenly paralyzed by the power of high velocity cartridges being fired.

I was also a full-time soldier in the Regular Army and experienced a few shooting incidents against an enemy. Those M-16s and M-4s and crew-served machine guns have one heckuva loud blast, yet shooting them or being very very to them never rendered me unable to effectively do my job.

If you ask me, I would say from personal experience that I won't load my personal defense .357 Magnum with any kind of watered-down ammunition. But I carry a 4" 686 or a 4" Model 28 loaded with the maximum power I can control. I want the odds in my favor as much as possible.

 

[bluto]

Interesting post nitesite. I won't debate the the points you make about adrenaline, full power loads and real life SD situations. I think they're sound and I'm sure you handle your .357 loads with no problem.

(BTW, I shoot a lot and I'm not particularly bothered by muzzle flash. Not flinch prone either. I don't consider myself a "toughguy" or a recoil junkie. I have fired off 50 rounds of full power .44 mag in one continuous session on a couple of occasions. That's about my limit and I didn't find it pleasant.)

I can also place .357 loads fired DA on target out to 15 yards. Just not as fast or tightly as .38 spl.+P pussycats. Maybe, as you say, aggression and adrenaline would take over in a SD situation. Mentally though, I think I'd feel good carrying a modern factory SD load that matches the ballistics of the top performing .45's, 9's and forty's. I think I'd be more inclined to practice more with a round in that range, too.

At the very least I'd like to see a few more selections in that range. I'm going to try out some of the suggestions in this thread and see what happens. I'll also try shooting some more full power loads and see if I can manage them a little better.

bluto

 

[nitesite]

Bluto-

One very good mid-powered .357 Magnum load is (was) made by Pro-Load Ammunition and called Tactical Grade.

They use premium components throughout and it has been extremely consistent for me. The Tactical Grade is clocked at 1125-fps with a special cavity Gold Dot bullet that lives up to the Gold Dot reputation of consistent expansion and almost total weight retention. It is different in that they don't use the same 125-gr bullet as found in the .38 +P loads, so it doesn't overdrive the bullet causing fragmentation.

If you find some I know you will be pleased.

Oh, they use very good low-flash suppressed powders, too!

And their 20-count boxes of ammo are priced lower than the Big-Four manufacturers.

 

[wally]

Bluto,

Why not start reloading, then you can make exactly the performance you want. Reloading .38/.357 is probably the easiest there is, and with revolvers there is no brass to chase. For low volume a single stage press is fine and if you shop carefully you could probalby get started for under $100 for equipment -- scale, powder measure, dies and press.

--wally.

 

[bluto]

Thanks again for the suggestions. I'll add Pro Load to my list of things to look out for. As for re-loading, with the amount of .45 that I shoot it's definitely the smart way to go. Soon, maybe.

I'll post when I get my hands on some of the loads.

bluto

 

[sgt127]

Remington still makes a 158 GR lead Semiwadcutter .357. I just chrono'd some of them through a 3" S&W 65. They were averaging 1150. Thats a pretty decent compromise for me...and, about all my hands can take.

I know the Semiwadcutter isn't for everyone, but, I think penetration trumps expansion and, the semiwadcutter should dump alot of energy in the target.

 

[unspellable]

mid-range 357

Years ago I used to buy 357 Magnum cartridges marketed under the Sako name. They had a 158 grain semi-wadcutter at about 1000 fps from a six inch revolver and made dandy target or plinker loads.