Question about bronze

[Olmontanaboy]

I know that some canon barrels were made of bronze, and some revolver frames were/are made of brass. What is the difference in these metals. How does bronze compare to iron and steel. Was bronze used because of war time shortages of steel/iron? Also were any revolver frames made of bronze during the civil war?

 

[StrawHat]

I don't know the specific differences between bronze and brass, but I know quite a few canon were cast from bronze. Enough so that I doubt it was a wartime strategy to conserve iron or steel. Bronze barreled canon were used during the American Revoultion and I believe earlier wars.

Brass framed handgun were produced by the Confederate Armories to "save" iron.

As a sidenote, some Kentucky rifles and some target rifles were made with brass barrels.

 

[Macgille]

Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin and is stronger and harder than brass. It was used for weapons for hundreds of years before the technology of iron was discovered.
Cannon were made of bronze and brass since it is easier to cast than iron. Iron takes more heat and closer tolerances in casting.

Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. It is softer than bronze and is more malleable ( flows under pressure). It is subject to cracking when exposed to ammonia which can cause a cannon to explode upon firing.

Brass was used because iron was too costly to refine and to cast.

 

[billnpatti]

Bronz is a very useful alloy and comes in many different alloys. There were three good reasons for using it for cannon barrels. First, it was much stronger than the iron of the period. Second, it resisted corrosion from black powder residue and salt water. Thirdly, it has a low coeffecient of friction so that cannon balls would move smoothly through the barrel without galling.

The reason for brass frames on revolvers of the Civil War was the shortage of good steel in the south. What steel there was, or could be obtained, was reserved for making gun barrels. The frames were made of brass that was still readily available and could be obtained from the citizens who gave such things as brass candle sticks, etc. to be melted and made into gun frames. These frames were functional but were, and still are, inferior to steel frames. The brass frames are subject to stretching when subjected to many full loads.

 

[markallen]

Many church bells were confiscated, and or donated on both sides in the Civil War for cannon casting.
As was said above, the properties in casting, and also the cost, made bronze cannons very cheap compared to cast iron.
On a side note, if you have ever, or get the chance to be near a bronze cannon when fired, listen to the sound. They ring like a bell. Each cannon will have a different tone. A Civil war artillery man could tell which cannon in their battery had been fired from the tone it made.

 

[unspellable]

After tinnitus sets in, all cannons sound alike.

 

[Ratdog68]

"Lock and Load" on the History Channel (R. Lee Earmie) did an episode on artillery guns... they fired an old mortar that was probably bronze. It definately had a nice "ring" to it after being fired.

 

[rcflint]

Bronze

In the earlier days of iron cannon making, they used cast iron. Cast iron is brittle and will crack and break much more easily than bronze barrels, and the Parrot Rifle is an example of the solution before full steel barrels, with its reinforced breech sleeve.

Zinc and copper, brass, is subject to salt water electrolysis and will eventually become a copper sponge by losing the zinc, so not a good choice for naval cannon,

Tin and copper (and other additives), bronze, are stronger barrels, less prone to corrosion and electrolysis, and in the case of the Civil War era and earlier, stronger and superior to cast iron cannon.

Later developments adding rifling and longer range, and more powerful propellants demanded steel barrels, found by WWl.

 

[Oyeboten]

Some Bronze related Alloys were known as 'Gunmetal'...and were used in quite a few various non-gun things also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunmetal

There were (or are still if less used now) a vast array of Alloys in the broader Bronze-Brass family...each favored for specific kinds of applications.

 

[JamesKelly]

Bronze

The terms "brass" and "bronze" are ancient, and not used very precisely. There are many alloys of copper called some manner or other of brass, and many different bronze alloys.

With respect to percussion revolvers, normally the frames were forged of soft wrought iron, not steel. During the unfortunate activities of 1861-1865,Remington switched from forged wrought iron to malleable cast iron for their revolver frames. The Ordnance Dept requested that they go back to forged iron, but it is not clear that they ever did so. I have owned a couple of antique Remingtons, the frame of one I believe was machined from a forging, and another was obviously a casting. A malleable cast iron frame is less expensive than one forged from wrought iron. Coincidentally, Remington had a cost advantage over Colt at that time. Colt forged his frames from Norway Iron (Scandanavian wrought iron).

The Southern States had troubles getting steel for cylinders and barrels. Steel of such quality was only made in England at that time. The US did not produce decent "cast steel" until Collins Axe company got it going some time after 1865.

I've heard the same stories about church bells, brass candlesticks, etc & have occasion to believe them. However, I did analyze (X-ray fluorescence, no damage to the finish) the frame of one Spiller & Burr. It was right on the money for what today we would call "Valve Bronze", a.k.a. "Navy M", a.k.a. "Steam Bronze", UNS No. C92200. The chemical analysis is 88% copper, 6% tin, 4% zinc and 1.5% lead. The lead helps make a sound casting, but it does nothing good for the strength. Spiller & Burr I believe started with raw copper, zinc and tin, so made exactly the alloy they wanted.

That Spiller & Burr was probably stored for decades in a horse barn, so was exposed to ammonia fumes. As one previous guy wrote, ammonia does surely crack brass. Not supposed to crack bronze, but I think maybe that "not supposed to" comes from short-time laboratory tests.

I have no personal knowledge of Griswold & Gunnison frames, nor do I know what modern replica "brass" frames are made of.

(retired metallurgist, some-times gun collector)

 

[Oyeboten]

American Percussion Revolver Barrels may have been Wrought Iron also...and Cylinders, Steel...


The 'Trap Door' Springfield Rifles, had Wrought Iron Barrels...far as I recall.


Malluable Cast Iron Revolver Frames...funny, I was just recently wondering abou that.

I have a few very old Maluable Cast Iron "C-Clamps", and, if bent, one can straighten them 'hot', or, 'cold', and no cracking....very Strong...

Maluable Cast Irons are interesting...

 

[Hawkeye748]

Just a side note: The Gunney visited the NSSA home range to film several episodes of "Lock and Load." I believe that was one of them.

 

[Das Jaeger]

Brass and bronze

were used on the rifle of Luis and Clarks airgun on their adventures North
And was Rifled , just like the modern day Benjamin guns .



Luis :



The guns were Lukens designs .

Jaeger