Question about lead buildup in barrel

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Spartan299

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If this has been covered before, I apologize. I've been experimenting with 185 grain Missouri Bullet SWC "Buttons" over 5.4 grains Bullseye. Cartridge overall length is 1.141 which is slightly over the recommended 1.135 called for in my reloading manual. The finished cartridges feed and eject very well, so I don't see that this is an issue.

What I am seeing that I am unsure of is lead buildup in the first third of the barrel after only twenty shots. I am gonna qualify this concern also by saying that some of this may well be copper buildup from my previous excursions with the FMJs. I didn't scrub out the barrel as well as I should have before switching to the lead SWCs. So my baseline for the leading concerns is somewhat compromised.

To cut to the chase here, is there anything in this cartridge configuration that would cause the leading that I'm seein'? I'm of a mind to say it's not an issue and most likely a combination of some copper foulin' and lead foulin' combined. Any thoughts you might have would be appreciated.
 
What cartridge? I assume it's 45 ACP, but ya know what they say about assuming?

If it is, what does your barrel slug at? What are the bullets sized at? Leading in the beginning of the barrel is indicative of poor bullet fit with gas blow-by melting the lead off the sides of the bullet.

What kind of accuracy did this load display? How heavy was the leading? If it's just a gray color, no problemo. If it steadily builds up, then it's a problem.
 
What are you shooting them out of? Leading in the first third of the barrel indicates a poor bullet to throat fit.
 
Spartan, I forgot to welcome you to the forum. Get used to quick answers here, it's common, and expected.
 
I'd say the first thing to do is clean ALL the copper fouling out of the barrel with copper solvent or JB Bore Paste and start over.

There is a reason plumbers use lead solder on copper pipe!
Because it sticks too it so well!

The other thing is, 5.4 grains Bullseye seated 1.190" is listed as a MAX load in the older Alliant manuals.
Try backing off to 5.0 and start over with a squeeky clean barrel and see what happens.

rc
 
Sorry about that. I'm shootin' 45 ACP out of a Springfield 1911 "Loaded". The Hornady book list 5.4 of Bullseye as about a middle of the road load that should clock in at about 900 fps. I'm gonna back the powder charge off to 5.0 or 5.1 to get the round down to about 800 fps. I have , as of now, cleaned the barrel completely. So I have a baseline to go from.
 
I don't believe Hornady sells a 185 grain lead bullet, so I don't believe they have loading data for one.

Hornadys 200 grain swaged lead bullet might perform a little different then MB's 185 grain cast lead bullet.
For one thing, it is a different weight, and probably has a longer bearing surface to grip the rifling since it doesn't have a grease groove taking up full dia surface area.

Actually, I am surprised Hornady lists that high a velocity with swaged bullets.
Speer says 4.6 Bullseye max with their 200 grain swaged bullet for about 750 FPS.

rc
 
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Ya know, I'm wonderin' if I'm not runnin' that lead bullet too hot like ya say. I'm thinkin' your right and I need ta drop the powder charge down to 5.0 or a little less and get it in the 750 - 800 fps range. I haven't slugged the barrel, so I can't speak ta that, but the more I reflect on this round, the more I think you've got a point.

Probably it would be best to reset the powder charge for 4.9 - 5.0 grains and see what that does. I gotta get a chrony at some point!
 
Two key features for lead bullets. 0.001" over nominal -- i.e. if jacketed for the caliber is 0.355 you want cast bullets sized 0.356; and hard enough alloy -- Lyman #2 or equivalent.

The brand name factory lead bullets are swagged lead for bullseye shooting where velocities are going to be well under 800 fps and way too soft to go higher without leading issues. Made that mistake when I first started reloading.


With the right hardness and sized 0.356 I get no leading with 125 gr 9mm loads running ~1150 fps.
 
Spartan299 said:
Ya know, I'm wonderin' if I'm not runnin' that lead bullet too hot like ya say. I'm thinkin' your right and I need ta drop the powder charge down to 5.0 or a little less and get it in the 750 - 800 fps range. I haven't slugged the barrel, so I can't speak ta that, but the more I reflect on this round, the more I think you've got a point.

Probably it would be best to reset the powder charge for 4.9 - 5.0 grains and see what that does. I gotta get a chrony at some point!
Click to expand...
Our .45 Button bullet is a BHN 12 and is designed for low-pressure target loads. The design is Magma Engineering's version of the H&G #130, a very popular old-school Bullseye game load.

I wouldn't expect it to work right at over 800-825 fps, leading-wise, as that isn't what it was meant for.

Brad
 
OK. I need to get this round down to a lower velocity than what I was doin'. Any suggestions using Bullseye, WSF, WST. 700X, or Power Pistol. Just askin' on these as I have them in stock. Thanks in advance.
 
Bullseye, WST, or 700X pushing it to 750 to 800 FPS as Brad posted should work just fine. If you still get leading (After thoroughly cleaning the barrel) I would check the bore diameter.

Using an FCD by chance?
 
918v:
Nope. Not using a Lee Factory Crimp die. Hornady .45 Auto carbide dies.

243winxb:
I'm using a standard recoil spring so far and would like to continue using the standard recoil spring on any reloads I create. If that means I gotta change the bullet, so be it.
 
45acp 185gr usng Bullseye Powder.

What kind of velocity will the 4.2 grains of Bullseye give me?
Click to expand...
Out of a Colt Gold Cup 5" barrel it runs at an average of 799fps. Starline brass, WLP primer. My cast bullet is a Saeco 185gr that drops from the mold at about 191gr, a little heavy.
joe1944usa
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If you're running a plain lead bullet and using a hot load that will do it. The heat off of the powder is enough to melt lead, look a cheap revolvers the burn right through the frame like a welding torch.

I may be wrong but sounds like you're too hot and partially smearing the bullet. Regardless if you are shooting lead the first rule is clean, clean and clean. There is a reason they started putting a jacket on them. Shooting a proper load will still build up, I know you are aware of that but running a load hot just amplifies it. It is just like welding; heat, softer metal and harder metal.
 
QL calculations with Bullseye, your bullet, and OAL, in 5" BBL are:
5.4 grains 18.3kPSI, 990 fps
4.2 grains 11.1kPSI, 802 fps
Leading in breech end of the barrel is definitely because bullet can not hold in grooves. 12BHN alloy may or may not hold in 18kPSI, depending on how deep is rifling. I concur with the suggestion to try 4.2 grains, and see if it helps.
 
You should get a 12lb recoil spring if you wanna run 185's that slow.
 
Holy Hell! 990 fps @ 5.4! I screwed up on that one big time! 4.2 grains it is. Man, do I feel like an idiot! :banghead:

Thank God it wasn't a terminal screwup!

Will I need to get the 12 lbs spring on this load?
 
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