Question about old gun "patina"

[Plinkin' Logs]

Hello everyone,
Been reading the Highroad for years, but just became a member today. Was hoping you could help me out with a project. So earlier yesterday I went in to my local pawn shop to pick up a few magazines they had special ordered for me and there is this lonely 20ga single shot sitting in the corner. Bluing is completely gone, and been replaced by a "rust patina", almost reminds me of browning you see on old muzzleloaders, but not nearly as uniform. Turns out its an older Topper model 158. Ask them what they want for it, and they say $95. I figured why not. I always liked the simplicity of single shot shotguns. Anyway. The gun is actually in great shape despite the bluing being gone. Wood is in great shape and no pitting anywhere.

I need help trying to decide what to do with it. Obviously this is not a high dollar gun so I don't expect to be having it professionally hot blued. I considered hitting it with some cold bluing after doing a really good prep. Yeah I know it will not last forever but it could be touch up easily. Or maybe I should just leave it?

The question is if I do cold blue would that mean I have to remove the "patina" for it to look acceptable. And is the patina actually protecting the steel from rust as it is, and by removing it would that allow it to vulnerable to rusting again? I have a few scotchbrite pads and some Birchwood casey blue & rust remover I could use. Could I cold blue over the existing patina, or would that just make it looks like a rusty blued gun?

I'll try to upload a photo soon
Thanks guys

 

[Plinkin' Logs]

Here it is

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[rcmodel]

If you cold blue, you have to get down to bare metal for the cold blue to work.
The old patens has protected it against bad rust all these years, right?

Cold blue won't protect it against the next time it rains!


The gun is what it is.

Leave it alone and enjoy it for what it is.

All I would do is carefully clean the worst rust off with 0000 Super-Fine Steel Wool & any kind of oil.

A grey rat gun looks better then a fading cold blue job a year from now!

See this about that:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=633232&highlight=Rust+1890

rc

 

[Plinkin' Logs]

Thats very true. Besides I almost would feel guilty scraping away some other guy's 50 year-in-the-making finish. It certainly has a lot of character the way it is. Whoever it was that had it before they used it quite a bit but treated it well for it to be in as good of shape as it is beyond the finish.

 

[carbine85]

Might be a good one to learn with and hone in your skills. It's not worth much so your not really loosing anything.

 

[Kp321]

The receiver on the H&R is cast iron which does not take a finish well. Most had a faux case hardened finish that went to brown patina in a few years but seldom rusted badly. The barrel had a low polish blue that was not very durable. I would rub it down with fine steel wool and keep it oiled.

 

[BBBBill]

The bluing was never very good on those and they gained the patina very easily without a lot of input from the owners. Cold blue does little to protect the metal. Rust blue would be better. It can be done with a minimum expense and looks great. Parkerizing is another easy finish and serves as a good base for any of the "paint" type finishes. I wouldn't spend the coin for Cerakote on this, but some Duplicolor enginge paint over park is a reasonably inexpensive solution.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Ditto on the 0000 steel wool / oil rubdown. If even that. I have a few recoveries that look just like that, and as long as you maintain them it won't get worse.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

You know, there is something honestly appealing and classy to me about a shotgun like this which is otherwise in great condition. It's got character. It's got that well used, utilitarian appeal to it. It's the kind of thing you look at and think "this was the workhorse that put food on the table back in the day".

Given that, I'd seriously consider nothing more than cleaning it up and keeping it well oiled to preserve it from further deterioration. And I'd USE that baby, too! She'd be a dream to carry in the field for rabbit hunting!


If I were to blue it, I'd consider a hot blue...simply because I wouldn't go a half measure. Yeah, it'd cost but sometimes it isn't about the money, you know? It's about your baby, a hobby. Besides...unlike ammunition and other gun-bling people get into, a hot blue is a one-time thing that will last you the rest of your life with this gun...and beyond.


If you wanted to eliminate almost all visible signs of the patina, then I'd consider parkerizing. The resulting flat black finish will go a long way towards hiding blemishes. And honestly...I think this gun would look really nice parkerized.


As for Cerakoting? Let's just say I'm not to enamored with this...but that's a personal bias and has absolutely nothing to do with the quality and benefits of Cerakoting.

 

[Plinkin' Logs]

How about BC Hot browning solution? Would that also protect against the elements? Would the browning and patina match even? I have heard if you boil the parts after the hot browning process they turn to blued, like in rust bluing, but not sure if its true. I only mention because I have a bottle of the stuff from a replica s/s 12ga blackpowder I touch up. Wasn't sure if people "browned" modern firearms. I have to admit it doesn't look bad the way it is though.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Oil it and forget about trying to refinish.

 

[rcmodel]

+100

You can do nothing except make the Mystery Metal receiver look far worse!

0000 Super-Fine steel wool & oil will make the barrel & the rest of it look almost like new.

NO ATTEMPTS to re-blue it with chemicals in a bottle!

It's bad!
MmmmKyyyyy?

rc

 

[rondog]

I think I'd go with the 0000 wool and oil crowd, myself. Now, I have an old 1952 Remington 514 s-s .22 rifle that I want to get professionally hot blued, but it was my very first gun, given to me by my oldest brother when I was 10. So it's a little more special to me than a $95 pawn shop shotgun.

But, like was also mentioned, a pro blued finish will last a lifetime. You could even get the receiver color casehardened again. It would look dynamite then, but it's still a cheapo 20ga. single in the end. All depends on what you really want, and if you want it to look special for your heirs too.

 

[Shimitup]

Looks awfully nice just the way it is.

 

[rogerstg]

Looks awfully nice just the way it is.

I agree. I'd just put a light coat of boiled linseed oil on it to stabilize the oxidized patina so it won't get worse.

IMO, steel wool and oil will make it look like it needs to be refinished. Been there, done that and was sorry I did.

 

[boom boom]

You might try a product called blue wonder gel with the 0000 steel wool. After cleaning it, reoil. It will save what little bluing is left, remove mild surface rust, and should not notably affect the patina. Midway and Brownells both have it. I use it getting the crud off of old milsurps and their parts. Worked so far on rust blued and caustic blue as well as parkerized with affecting the underlying finish. However, make sure that none of it is painted as blue wonder is a mild alkaline and probably would remove paint if not removed promptly.

As for me, it removes the dirt/old grease/cosmoline/rust without affecting the patina much but I do not, as some collectors seem to, count dirt and detritus as a true patina.