Question about possession and waiting for a stamp

[forindooruseonly]

I mailed a Form 1 off on August 15th to chop down an old double barrel shotgun I had, and left the gun leaning against the wall in my dad's shop. A month later, I was hit on my motorcycle by a drunk driver, and am recovering at my brother's house in a different state for reasons of mobility (hard to negotiate stairs with a shattered pelvis and arm). I'm in grad school, so my parent's address is my permanent one as I intend to return to my hometown when I'm out.

So here's my question - suppose my stamp comes back before I'm healthy enough to return home and my dad is in possession of an registered SBS that isn't an SBS yet. Could that be an issue legally? The gun hasn't been touched yet, it is still in its original configuration - 30 inch barrels and all - but now it is in the registry as a NFA item.

This is for academic purposes. On a practical level, the chance of it ever becoming an issue is slim to none, but it poses an interesting question that I haven't found an answer for. What do you guys think? Is it an SBS once it is cut down, or is it an SBS once the paperwork is done?

 

[scythefwd]

If it isn't a sbs yet, then that stamp isn't doing anything. You have permission to shorten it down, but until you do it isn't an sbr and the normal rules apply. I am not a lawyer, and my advice is worth exactly nothing in a court room. Find a lawyer and ask them.

 

[MasterSergeantA]

You are probably about half-way through the waiting period for your stamp. Until it comes, there is absolutely no issue.

After it arrives, you will have permission to cut the barrels back to the length specified on the Form 1. Until you cut the barrels and have the receiver engraved, I would argue that it isn't really a SBS. Part of my reasoning is that you could, if the spirit moved you, destroy your short barrels, replace the original 18"+ barrels and it would no longer be the SBS because it no longer has the requisite short barrels. If you did this, you could send the ATF a note to the effect that it was back to pre-SBS configuration, but that is not even a legal requirement.

As above, just my opinion. I could be mistaken.

 

[GoingQuiet]

Form 1 is a mother may I.

There's nothing wrong with having a stamp for an SBS that isn't an SBS yet. In fact, if you change your mind you can void the Form 1 with an affadavit and get your $200 back.

I mailed a Form 1 off on August 15th to chop down an old double barrel shotgun I had, and left the gun leaning against the wall in my dad's shop. A month later, I was hit on my motorcycle by a drunk driver, and am recovering at my brother's house in a different state for reasons of mobility (hard to negotiate stairs with a shattered pelvis and arm). I'm in grad school, so my parent's address is my permanent one as I intend to return to my hometown when I'm out.

So here's my question - suppose my stamp comes back before I'm healthy enough to return home and my dad is in possession of an registered SBS that isn't an SBS yet. Could that be an issue legally? The gun hasn't been touched yet, it is still in its original configuration - 30 inch barrels and all - but now it is in the registry as a NFA item.

This is for academic purposes. On a practical level, the chance of it ever becoming an issue is slim to none, but it poses an interesting question that I haven't found an answer for. What do you guys think? Is it an SBS once it is cut down, or is it an SBS once the paperwork is done?

 

[forindooruseonly]

All excellent responses, I thank you.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Once the Form 1 goes through it IS an SBS. It might not be configured as such, but you couldn't sell it face to face without going through a Form 4 as it would be papered and stamped on your Form 1.

Case in point: I could Form 1 a Glock as an SBR and open carry it in Texas. It might be configured as a pistol, everyone and his brother might say it's a pistol, but legally, it's an SBR and I'd have the tax stamp to prove it.

Form 1 is a mother may I.

You can Form 1 a silencer too. That tube in your house becomes a silencer once the paperwork and stamp go through.

 

[forindooruseonly]

but you couldn't sell it face to face without going through a Form 4 as it would be papered and stamped on your Form 1.

It might be configured as a pistol, everyone and his brother might say it's a pistol, but legally, it's an SBR and I'd have the tax stamp to prove it.

How does that affect possession if it isn't registered on a trust with other officers? Hypothetically, could you loan that Glock in a pistol configuration to someone?

Once again, in my case who is going to see, much less check on a ninety year old double barrel with 30 inch barrels that doesn't even have a stamp yet? Noone, so its not like its a pressing issue. However, because I have too much to lose, I'd still like to know the law (or rulings/policies, as the ATF has) concerning the concept. Might be useful in the future.

Regards.

 

[Strykervet]

Questions like this only serve to illustrate how ridiculous, petty and obscene these laws are. That someone is afraid for his family's safety from the government over something like this is just disgusting.

NFA laws are like regulating the color of Lucky Charms' marshmallows and holding a ten year prison sentence over your head for using pink when you shouldn't. It shouldn't be tolerated in a country that talks so much about personal freedoms.

I couldn't say, only the ATF could answer your question and anything on here is just heresay. They could give you a letter saying it is okay and give another guy a letter saying just the opposite and THEY will treat that letter as if it is Constitutional Law. You get to prove otherwise using a rulebook that they wrote. Good luck.

Some guy out there has a letter from ATF saying his masterkey under his AR is just an AOW. I'll bet there is some guy out there who had to sell his colon to defend himself against the monster for doing something similar.

Get a trust and be done with it is my advice. Then it doesn't matter who has it or their legal status if you say it is okay, because if it isn't (say they are a felon) you are pre-empted or whatever from any wrong doing.

 

[Sam1911]

Hold on...there are some misconceptions here. Let's ask the source:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html

Q: Is it necessary to send notification to ATF and receive acknowledgement that the SBR or SBS has been removed from the purview of the NFA before it may be sold as a GCA firearm?There is no requirement for the possessor of a registered NFA firearm to notify ATF that the firearm has been removed from the purview of the NFA. However, ATF recommends the possessor notify the NFA Branch of such changes in writing so that the possessor is not mistakenly identified as the owner if the firearm is later used in a crime. If, at the time of transfer, the firearm does not meet the definition of a SBR, it should be transferred without filing the NFA transfer application and without payment of the transfer tax.

Q: May I transfer the receiver of a short-barrel rifle or shotgun to an FFL or to an individual as I would any GCA firearm?Yes. A weapon that does not meet the definition of a NFA “firearm” is not subject to the NFA and a possessor or transferor needn’t comply with NFA requirements. The firearm is considered a GCA firearm and may be transferred under the provisions of that law.


Q: Who is responsible for notifying the NFA Branch when I transfer the GCA firearm to a FFL or another individual?There is no requirement that the transferor or transferee of a GCA firearm notify the NFA branch of a transfer or that either party determine whether the firearm was previously registered under the NFA. There is no also no requirement for the registrant or possessor of a NFA firearm to notify ATF of the removal of features that caused the firearm to be subject to the NFA; however, ATF recommends the owner notify the NFA Branch in writing if a firearm is permanently removed from the NFA.

So this, "Once the Form 1 goes through it IS an SBS. It might not be configured as such, but you couldn't sell it face to face without going through a Form 4 as it would be papered and stamped on your Form 1," is directly incorrect. If it is not configuread as an NFA firearm, the Form 1 or 4 doesn't make any difference at all.

Hypothetically, could you loan that Glock in a pistol configuration to someone?

If you can loan them a regular Title I Glock, then yes. In fact, the ATF says you ARE loaning then a regular Title I (GCA) Glock.

To the OP: Your situation presents no legal concerns at all. Until you cut that shotgun down, it ISN'T an NFA item, no matter what your stamped form says. In fact, if you can find another set of barrels that will function in your gun, you'll be able to swap between NFA SBS and GCA shotgun at will.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Well then... I'm totally incorrect! My apologies to the OP! I hadn't checked the ATF website in a while.

 

[Sam1911]

Also note that this is the ATF's NFA FAQ specifically on SBR/SBSs. The same certainly does not hold true for Machine Guns, for example.

 

[forindooruseonly]

Thanks Sam, I looked at the ATF site and missed it, I guess cause my experience has been with MGs and suppressors. This is my first go around with SBRs/SBSs.

I appreciate you providing the info!

 

[medalguy]

Aren't NFA laws fun to figure out?

 

[Sam1911]

Aren't NFA laws fun to figure out?

YES! They're kind of like one of those books of logic problems my wife likes -- full of convaluted story-with-a-hole scenarios where 37 people are at a party, three of them are named 'Bob,' 17 don't like lemonade, and you're supposed to figure out the hat size of the neighbor's dog.

 

[rjrivero]

They're kind of like one of those books of logic problems my wife likes -- full of convaluted story-with-a-hole scenarios where 37 people are at a party, three of them are named 'Bob,' 17 don't like lemonade, and you're supposed to figure out the hat size of the neighbor's dog.

They aren't even on par. The logic problems can be solved by applying LOGIC. NFA rules can only be deciphered by digging and finding the LATEST RULINGS on some of these contrived "laws."