Question about Transporting Handguns in IN

[Glacius_the_Invincible]

This past weekend I went shooting at a local public range south of Muncie, IN at the Wilbur Wright Fish and Wildlife Area. The range, and the entire wildlife preserve, is patrolled and maintained by the Indiana DNR.

While I'm there shooting a DNR officer pulls up in his truck and goes around asking people if they have their pink cards (a waiver that range users have to fill out and carry on them while on the range), and for those shooting handguns, their handgun permits. He was a friendly, chatty guy and we got to talkin and I didn't think anything of it at the time, so I just showed him my permit and my card and he moved on to the next lane.

Later on, though, I got to thinking... Why did he want to see my handgun permit if I was already on the range? I wasn't carrying it anywhere, and the gun wasn't holstered. It was just sitting on the range table at slidelock. I was always under the impression that you could take a handgun to the range without a handgun permit, so long as it was locked in your trunk on the way there and back.

The only thing I can figure is that I had to have it because I was technically carrying on public property rather than privately owned land like if I'd been shooting at a private club or range.

So basically, I'm asking what the law is here and if I'm way off in what I originally thought.

 

[El Tejon]

 

[El Tejon]

Alright, I've read this again. What exactly is your question(s), GTI?

"The law" is just a little broad! Narrow it down for me, I've had prosecutors kicking me in the head all morning.

 

[Glacius_the_Invincible]

Sorry about that. Guess it wasn't too clear. What I'm asking is why did I have to have my permit to have taken my handgun to the range?

I thought you could take a handgun to and from the range without a permit so long as you had it in your trunk...

So why did he need to see my permit if I was already at the range and everything?

This might be a dumb question... And if so, no big deal. I guess I just thought I wouldn't have had to have my permit to go to the range.

 

[El Tejon]

*Shakes head to clear it*

O.K., I understand your question. Rough morning. Oy vey, how I suffer, thank goodness for the coming long weekend.

Alright, look at Indiana Code 35-47-2-2(11), the last paragraph of "excepted persons" to the license requirement--the po-po, probation officers, feds, militree, armoured car dudes, gunsmiths or dealers going about bidness and you if you, if pistola unloaded, are going to bidness, home from bidness, or moving your bidness or crib.

In short, there isn't a range exception under Indiana law. Yes, I know you're going to say that's moronic and why hasn't ISRA and the NRA listened to El Tejon all these years when he repeatedly points this out.

My answer: why would anyone, especially the NRA or beautiful young women, listen to El Tejon. He only deals with this stuff day in and day out, he's too radical, we only want to get along so we can shoot ducks, blah, blah, blah.

What happens is that guys get the FOPA of '86 confused with state law, i.e. interstate law vs. intrastate law, and think they don't have to have a permit if "only going to the range." Not so.

That may work, and to tell you the truth have not seen a prosecution of a fact pattern like you described. In fact only prosecution of only carrying without license is one I pitched on a kid from Alaska. Loaded pistol under seat of his truck after shooting. Kid was All-American wrestler, it was PURE jury nullification, even defense attorney thought they would convict. In fact, atter trial two women on jury went over and hugged/patted him. When judged talked to them, jury reported that while it may have been violation of law, no one hurt and was not that big of a deal.

You may not be so lucky or have resources to defend in court. If you go to the range, pay the $25 for your LTCH. You will pay far more for that for a tilecrawler.

 

[Glacius_the_Invincible]

Thanks El T, for the quick reply:

I do have my permit, and so it wasn't a problem. I was just confused about it.

It does seem dumb to me, though, that you have to have a permit just to go to the range for some .22 plinking. Oh well.

Thanks again,

Jackson

 

[El Tejon]

If your .22 is a pistol, then yes. Rifles, shotgun, submachine gun, no.

Dumb? Yes. But, Title 35 is chock full of dumbness.

I tell the NRA every year, face to face and in writing about (11)'s lack of exception to and from the range. They stare at me and blink and do nothing.

Oh, well, what do I know. I should be used to people not listening to me and refusing to take my advice. I have all kinds of ideas to reform our gun laws, and the most frustrating thing is that it would not take that much.

Never quit.

 

[Jadecristal]

Uhhh... you need a permit to have a gun anywhere except your business or house in IN?

And here I was wanting to move back there. Although, I suppose being in WI where I am right now, and getting screwed by other people's elected representatives on concealed carry... maybe it wouldn't be so bad. Still seems like de facto registration.

Jadecristal

 

[Dr.Who]

What about an out of state shooter going to a match in Indiana? He may not have the permit that Indiana requires for state residence shooters. Example going from Illinois with a F.O.I.D. card to Indiana for a match at a range (not sure if private or not). Would the out of stater be in legal trouble? or O.K. if they have the proper paperwork (F.O.I.D. Card) for their state of residence?

I have toyed with going to a few IDPA matches in Indiana, but now I'm concerned...

Although, Indiana sounds a little like Michigan. If I was on my private properly I could carry no problem or with permission from the land owner. However to be 100% legal in the transportation of my gun to the area of use, over the public roads, one had to get a permit to transport. (you still had to have it cased and locked in the trunk while transporting) This permit to transport would also allow you to carry concealed if you had a hunting license and only during hunting season while in the field. Basiclly, allow you to wear your sidearm under your coat to protect it from the weather. We won't go into the hand gun registration process in Michigan.

 

[Gray Peterson]

What about an out of state shooter going to a match in Indiana? He may not have the permit that Indiana requires for state residence shooters. Example going from Illinois with a F.O.I.D. card to Indiana for a match at a range (not sure if private or not). Would the out of stater be in legal trouble? or O.K. if they have the proper paperwork (F.O.I.D. Card) for their state of residence?

I think El Tejon touched on the problem. The issue here is that there are apparently two kinds of LTCF's in Indiana:

A qualified license that gives you the ability to go to the range, and;

A unlimited license that gives you the ability to carry openly or concealed anywhere except for "prohibited places".

My guess is the reason the NRA and ISRPA doesn't care much about the lack of a range exception is because the permits are easy to get and cheap as hell.

Remember that Indiana accepts as valid all out of state and out of country permits as well. So if you get a permit from, say, Pennsylvania (which costs $20 from Centre County, you can get it all by mail thanks to Sheriff Denny Nau), as an Illinois resident, you'll be covered in Indiana.

 

[Gray Peterson]

Dr. Who,

Btw, the Vear Transportation Bill, introduced as HB 6337 in 2003, changed that law. Now you can generally transport handguns in a case unloaded fashion anywhere you wish in Michigan.

 

[El Tejon]

Oh, no, we don't need that Michigan refore here. Mr. Tejon, that's fine and dandy for Michigan, but we just don't have a problem here. Let's focus on ducks instead.:banghead:

Jade, have pistol? No. Carry pistol? Yes. The person is licensed not the weapons.

Dr. Who, exactly the problem! While the FOPA creates an umbrella, the local county mounty may not know about it!

Lonnie, that's exactly the response I get back from NRA & ISRPA.

 

[Dr.Who]

Thanks, El Tejon...

I am always a little worried while traveling out of state, with a unloaded gun, cased, and trunked; getting pulled over and getting some Mavrick peace officer that believes he has probable cause and find these properly owned/tranported firearms and causing problems.

Watching too much TV cop shows...

That Vear transportation bill that Lonnie mentioned was passed well after my tenure in Michigan... Left in 1999.

Thanks...