Question for instructors

[coondogger]

The NRA is using a new instructional approach. They call it blended training. If a person wants to take the NRA basics of pistol shooting course, for instance, and receive certification, they must first take the on-line course, called Phase I and then go to an NRA instructor for the hands-on portion, called Phase II. I realized that many states require some certification for either purchase, possession or carry of a pistol. But what about people that just want to learn how to safely use a pistol and don't want to take the online course? Do you say, as an NRA instructor, you must go the whole hog and take both phases? Or do you say, I'll teach you but without official sanction or certification. I'm talking to NRA instructors here. I'm interested in your opinion.

 

[macgrumpy]

As a certified instructor I wouldn't provide any professional training without following the entire course from the NRA - it's a liability issue, I would never give a stranger the opportunity to say that I didn't train them well enough and that's why they did something illegal or injurious.

On the other hand, if you and I were personal friends and you simply wanted to learn how to shoot a gun safely I'd work with you one-on-one, but I would also make it clear that we were just shooting together and I was simply ensuring my own safety by making sure that we agreed on certain rules and gun handling techniques - this wouldn't be a training program. It's too easy to blame the trainer for any future mishaps so if I'm training I want to be able to turn to the NRA for legal assistance if I'm drug in to a court case.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I work for a training company and am an NRA Certified Pistol Instructor.
I teach intro courses that are not NRA.

While I believe that the NRA Courses are really good, they are not (IMO) 100% required to get good instruction. They will cover much the same material, but not exactly the same.

Some outfits want NRA certified instructors then have their own course curriculum to work with.
I think that is fine, but you have to be pretty confident that the outfit you are looking into is good to go. When you have NRA curriculum you can be pretty sure its good stuff that covers ALL of the topic at hand (Rifle, pistol, etc).

 

[coondogger]

I ask because I'm an instructor and there are people I know that have mentioned that they are interested in some very basic safety and handling instruction, but I'm quite sure they would not want to go through an entire online course just to get some instruction from me.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I'm an NRA pistol instructor. The gun club I belong to dumped the new NRA blended training after we had zero students sign-up over a period of two months. As a result the club put together its own basic handgun course based on the old NRA pistol course. Several students have signed-up.

Tacoma Rifle and Revolver Club is doing the same.

NRA fouled-up by charging $60 for the online Phase I course. Prospective students appear to be balking at paying $60 for the online course and another $100 for the Phase II hands-on course. As a result many gun clubs are dropping the NRA course in favor of presenting their own courses, which is a shame as the NRA training certificate is accepted in virtually every jurisdiction. Many individual instructors are doing the same.

That, plus the ridiculous number of sign-offs required when a student demonstrates proficiency on each skill, as well as sign-off sheets with errors provided by NRA.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I have the same situation. Folks know I'm an NRA Certified Pistol Instructor and want some basic gun safety, gun handling and shooting instruction. I cover Jeff Cooper's four rules of gun safety and provide basic firearm specific instruction and coaching. I let them know I'm just helping them as a friend and not as an NRA instructor.

 

[macgrumpy]

AS an NRA certified trainer I wouldn't provide any amount of training without following the entire NRA training regimen but I will also mention that I'm letting my NRA certification (RSO only, no other certs) expire, partly because I'm retired and partly because I only see negative things about having an NRA certification. If I'm NRA certified and I were to get in to a legal issue over gun safety, then what I did would be looked at under a microscope and if I didn't follow the NRA training perfectly I could be blamed for negligence. As a regular guy I'm not going to be held to the same scrutiny and standards of conduct as a certified "expert".

 

[Ed Ames]

$60 for an online course is waaaay above market rate. $60 per year for all the online courses you want to take is probably closer. Truthfully, it should be a freebie for NRA members. Cheaper to deliver, but more valuable than, a free hat.

 

[VA27]

I was a certified NRA Police Firearms Instructor. I dropped it when they started wanting 60 bucks a year just for me to keep the certification.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Depends on the instructor. The NRA instructor can teach you, but unless you finish both phases you will never be certified.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

It appears to me that the NRA is only following the first rule of bureaucracies: Self Preservation, which is why I have abandoned almost of all of my memberships to business and political organizations. They were started with good intentions but became snared in greed and preservation. The Red Cross, the American Cancer Society, and most of the rest, other than St Judes and the Salvation Army have become parasites that feed on misfortune of one type or another.

 

[Frank Ettin]

$60 for an online course is waaaay above market rate. $60 per year for all the online courses you want to take is probably closer. Truthfully, it should be a freebie for NRA members. Cheaper to deliver, but more valuable than, a free hat.

Do you have any idea what's in the on-line course? Have you gone through it? I have (I'm an NRA certified instructor).

The course takes between 6 and 7 hours to complete. It is interactive with self tests, a review functionality, and cross references to additional resources.

On line continuing legal education classes I take will cost between $30.00 and $60.00 for one hour of lecture.

 

[Ed Ames]

Do you have any idea what's in the on-line course? Have you gone through it? I have (I'm an NRA certified instructor).

The course takes between 6 and 7 hours to complete. It is interactive with self tests, a review functionality, and cross references to additional resources.

Ok, so let's compare... I can go to coursera.org and take a Yale university class, e.g. Introduction to Classical Music. It takes 9 weeks with a commitment of 2-3 hours per week. They give me a choice of paying $0 if I just want to learn the material, or $49 if I want a certificate.

Or I can go to Kahn Academy and learn Organic Chemistry through a series of online courses that would probably take a hundred or more hours to get through, for free...

Or, getting back to guns...as I recall a radio personality tried to set up a premium video firearms training site a few years ago. I don't recall exactly but I think the safety related training was all free, and advanced training access was $50/yr for all the videos you could watch. I think it was shut down for lack of subscribers which means it was too expensive.

And then there is the hunter safety course. Those are now the same sort of blended courses with an online and a live portion, or actually some states are online only now. They are also required if you want to do something (hunt), unlike the NRA courses, and they cost...nothing to take. You can take the HSC online for free. If you pass and you want the certificate, that is $30.

And then we have the NRA... offering what is billed as a basic safety course. It is only 6-7 hours of material, and nobody is forcing you to take it, but they want $60 for a single online course that once developed costs them maybe a few cents per student (easily paid for with a few ads).

Yeah, they are charging way way waaaay above market for what they offer. They should be giving that stuff away to improve their "we are the real gun safety group" cred.

On line continuing legal education classes I take will cost between $30.00 and $60.00 for one hour of lecture.

Yes, and that's because you are required to take continuing education to maintain your licence. They are charging for the licence maintenance, not the training. Same as the HSC I mentioned above.

 

[Curator]

I am a NRA Pistol Instructor in SW Florida. Pryor to the "blended learning" online course, I averaged about 20 or so first steps and basic pistol students a month. I have offered "Phase II" (the other half of the online pistol course) twice each month April, May, June, and this month. I have had many phone calls and e-mails about the online course where I sent a link to sign up but have had ZERO people complete the Phase 1 online portion. No one has explained why they did not complete the online class, they just fade away without explanation. Is it the $60 bucks? Course too long? To technical? Every other NRA instructor I know around here is having the same experience. Most of them are abandoning the official NRA pistol certification, some in protest, others out of ordinary laziness.

The online class is not bad--not as good as an instructor led, hands n experience, but easy for anyone with basic firearms knowledge. For the true beginner, it over-simplifies and under instructs. Most of the beginner's confusion can be handled in the instructor led phase II at the gun range. For me, I feel uneasy meeting an unknown person at the range with firearm and live ammo, having not had the safe classroom experience beforehand.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Phase II is supposed to be about 5 1/2 hours in duration, excluding breaks, of combined classroom and range instruction. Exercises 1 thru 3 can be accomplished in the classroom with Exercise 4 performed at the range.

I like Ed Ames idea, join the NRA and get Phase I for free. That'd be a win/win for the NRA.

 

[EIB0879]

NRA certified Rifle Instructor and RSO. I did a course over two long days on-site. I did the RSO training after that as a correspondence course. I think doing part of the initial training on-line is a great idea. Caveat is that I maintain my certs but I don't instruct anymore.

 

[DoubleMag]

Post #14 is easier then me re-typing. The majority of students around here is for concealed permit certification vs. furthering knowledge. I predict, due to the loss of students to other formats of training, the whole ''mandatory'' of the program will be remanded to, ''optional'', where it should have been all along. There is a small section of potential students who cannot make a weekend class due to WORK, this would help some for those. Instructors with 100s if not 1000s of students previously instructed predicted what is happening now, why the NRA didn't listen is beyond me.